The Human Side of AI. Tram Anh Nguyen on Building a Future for Everyone

00:00:00: Out of a hundred most influential people in AI, around ten are women.

00:00:04: Can we trust AI to be inclusive and responsible if the building and governing it is not reflecting the world?

00:00:13: Today's underrepresentation becomes tomorrow's automated bias so that why waiting does not work?

00:00:27: I'm Sarah Delagarde.

00:00:29: i am eighty percent human and twenty percent bionic.

00:00:32: Welcome to Taste of Bionics, the podcast that focuses on tech innovation.

00:00:37: The future of healthcare and human potential.

00:00:40: today's guest is someone helping shape one of the most important conversations over time how technology and artificial intelligence will influence the future Of humanity as a big topic right here See?

00:00:54: How far we're going to be able to dig down into this rabbit hole.

00:00:58: Tram Ann Nguyen Is the co-founder of the Centre for Finance, Technology and Entrepreneurship but she's also the chairwoman of Global Women in AI.

00:01:11: Through her work She has educated hundreds or thousands people around the world about emerging technologies future skills AND digital transformation.

00:01:20: But what makes her particularly interesting I think is that she focuses not only on what technology can do... ...but who gets to build it use it and benefit from it.

00:01:34: And as someone whose own life has been transformed by advances in healthcare, technology and AI-powered prosthetics I'm excited to explore what an inclusive AI future could look like... ...and why the human side of innovation matters just as much as the technology itself.

00:01:54: Tramann welcome to A Taste Of Bionics!

00:01:58: Thanks a

00:01:59: lot, very happy and honoured to be here with you Sarah.

00:02:05: And for the first inaugural taste of Bionics.

00:02:07: thanks a lot for having me!

00:02:10: You're so welcome.

00:02:11: Well... The way we do this is that I'm going ask some quick-fire questions.

00:02:18: This our icebreaker just start off And we call it the taste test.

00:02:23: So I'm going to ask you a series of questions, but basically you have to choose between one or the other.

00:02:28: It's bit like...I am asking about dogs Or cats.

00:02:33: What do you chose?

00:02:34: Okay so let us get started.

00:02:36: Human or machine?

00:02:38: Human!

00:02:40: Can i ask why?

00:02:41: Oh okay

00:02:43: No You can't answer that You just need an answer.

00:02:47: Next one Regulation or innovation.

00:02:51: Innovation with regulation design in.

00:02:54: Smart!

00:02:55: Optimism or caution?

00:02:58: Optimism

00:02:59: Data, or intuition?

00:03:01: Data

00:03:02: Education or technology?

00:03:05: Education

00:03:06: Healthcare or finance?

00:03:08: Finance.

00:03:09: Antarctica and Mars

00:03:12: Antarctica

00:03:13: Nice one.

00:03:14: I like your answer on this one.

00:03:16: So just to go back to dog vs cat On which side do you stand?

00:03:22: Dogs versus cats.

00:03:23: Oh, that's a hard question!

00:03:28: What

00:03:28: both?!

00:03:28: You can have both!

00:03:31: Awesome okay well I'm a cat person so if you need some convincing arguments we can talk offline and i'll convince you about the cat bit but before we dive in.

00:03:43: And specifically, what started you off on this path of exploring technology?

00:03:54: What sparked your curiosity about technology innovation and was there a specific trigger or moment where you thought actually I need to focus on entrepreneurship.

00:04:06: Yeah no thanks Sarah!

00:04:10: I have now set up CFT, which is a global educational platform to help professionals people to upskill and reskill in this big wave.

00:04:22: Which technology?

00:04:24: in finance?

00:04:25: so i spend a lot of my time you know building that capability for the past ten years almost ten year So I setup twenty seventeen um...which are simply they reason an eye work uh..a lot.

00:04:38: with all The way that we have done is reaching out of two hundred thousand professionals across a hundred and thirty countries.

00:04:47: And through the platform, I work with governments central banks leading organizations how to build human capability To respond to these big technological changes at scale.

00:05:02: So I work closely with public sector, industry education of course a lot and convince senior leadership around future skills, AI readiness responsible innovation.

00:05:14: And workforce transformation.

00:05:16: so I'm based in London but hello from Singapore which i am really happy to be having this conversation with you.

00:05:24: what sparkled me to do what I do?

00:05:27: The honest answer is that Technology was not the spark.

00:05:33: Finance was!

00:05:34: I spent my first part of my career, so twenty-five years now but inside institutions that worked extremely well for a small number of people and not a lot –for everyone else– didn't have access to technology.

00:05:50: Technology is what made it visible.

00:05:53: I'm from the Vietnamese of origin, born and raised in Paris.

00:05:57: I began my career at Emerging Market.

00:06:00: I was a trader in New York, moved through Standard Chartered and then moved to UBS Private Banking in London where it was in charge of ultra hard net worth across clients across US, Europe, Emerging market.

00:06:13: a lot And crossing culture.

00:06:17: time zones were constant but my heritage was shaped how I think about both resilience and opportunity.

00:06:25: The first thing that came out is a couple of ten years ago, I attended FinTech course at Oxford which was taught by Huingyuan Chiu who became after that my co-founder.

00:06:37: he was instrumental in designing the first curriculum for finance technology at Oxford.

00:06:44: When he offered me the place to go there, I was blown away with what i was learning.

00:06:49: How finance and technology could give you access to finance?

00:06:53: It's financial inclusion!

00:06:55: So The first time in my whole career life In Finance ,I saw that finance through a different lens Open banking digital finance mobile money data platforms stopped looking like products but starting To look Like A force That Could really change who gets Access to Money at all?

00:07:13: And so for me it was wow, but this finance and technology is now getting people to have access to finance.

00:07:19: To access savings, to mortgages

00:07:22: etc.,

00:07:22: to people all around the world.

00:07:24: People must get their skills and must get you know education So that they can build and tap into that!

00:07:31: That's why I've realised It something really important For Me.

00:07:37: Then there were also two other things that really sparking me to become an entrepreneur.

00:07:43: It's that fifteen years apart, the first one was perhaps a nine eleven in New York.

00:07:50: Nine Eleven In New York two

00:07:52: thousand one.

00:07:53: at the

00:07:53: time I Was in The War Treat Center?

00:07:56: I wasn't so war treat center and they lived directly across the Twin Towers.

00:08:01: i was walking to work That morning And of course i was in the building.

00:08:06: the First plane hit and i was there.

00:08:09: There were no phone.

00:08:11: The street was chaos.

00:08:12: I could not return to my flat, My husband was in Paris leaving me alone and so i was confronted To run ,to be a survivor of that day itself.

00:08:23: but what came after is That the team moved from a temporary offices In New Jersey And we rebuild the trading room.

00:08:32: We created an environment where people Could feel safe work again and believe in A future.

00:08:38: A year later That team, my team was recognized as one of the best teams on Wall Street.

00:08:45: The lesson took me and shaped me is that a crisis did not build anything.

00:08:49: Choosing to rebuild it?

00:08:52: The second lesson through mine in my career was leaving the institutional finance to being an entrepreneur with CFT which asked me to rebuild my own identity rather than changing her role from title to mission From salary to nothing uncertainty from working inside an institution to questioning whether that institutions were building the right thing at all.

00:09:16: So you may not choose the disruption, but you chose their response to it and so that's why I feel natural for me to do what i'm doing

00:09:26: today.".

00:09:27: That's incredible!

00:09:28: First of all ,I had no idea there was a New York for that fateful day .So that is incredible !

00:09:35: I can't even comprehend this... But we've got quite a lot in common with this idea of you, the way you react to adversity is what creates the opportunity.

00:09:45: So I think that's something we have in common.

00:09:49: but what was the trigger moment?

00:09:52: That made you decide to found global women and AI because that's one step beyond.

00:10:02: I

00:10:07: built CFT and throughout my journey with CFT, at some point i've realized that it was through COVID.

00:10:15: So in the year of twenty-one, a lot people were looking for online education And at that time, I was really happy after the few hundred thousands of our learners.

00:10:30: Forty percent of my learner were women.

00:10:32: so iIwas really really happy to see big progress about woman getting into learning about finance and technology To provide them with a future.

00:10:43: But with AI is very different.

00:10:46: Am I saying this because the number stop being defensive?

00:10:50: Outof hundreds most influential people in AI around ten women out of the top one only.

00:11:01: So I think it's really, really critical that today we are not having a gender issue but we're having leadership issues and innovation issues associated because AI is another piece of software reshaping how you work ,how The decision can be made on how the economy grows across finance, healthcare education law government etc.

00:11:32: So I think today's question we should all be asking is that Can we build one of the most powerful technologies for our generation without women fully at a table?

00:11:43: Can we create systems that serve society if society isn't represented in shaping them?

00:11:52: AI to be inclusive and responsible if the people building and governing it is not reflecting the world.

00:12:00: And so all this from what we did with COVID, to the forty percent of the professional CFT training where women... I think i was really proud that number at that time but with AI were going backward!

00:12:14: We are going backwards that we can all work together.

00:12:26: So now Global Woman India is a platform, and thanks to you know Sarah for being one of the ambassadors in this.

00:12:34: but... We want make sure many women around the world could come as an ecosystem really lead those discussions.

00:12:44: so at that level there are enough voices govern, to shape it and do things so that our lens are not being fully integrated into the system.

00:13:03: What challenges do women still face in technology and AI?

00:13:08: That's a question I would love to spend some time on because my view is they have five structural barriers rather than a cultural problem, because the structure can be redesigned and culture arguments to go nowhere.

00:13:34: So I think i'd like to take maybe out of The Five you know um A few.

00:13:39: but the AI talent.

00:13:41: sometimes it defined too narrowly.

00:13:44: Sometimes when you look at who are doing And the AI workforce today It's only led by engineer Only where implementation, governance and scaling matters just as much.

00:13:55: So how do you make sure that we are starting to get much more support?

00:14:00: To create.

00:14:01: what I love is the density of women talent.

00:14:04: How do you create and support and have much more woman in AI to lead?

00:14:09: so the density or talent We need build it!

00:14:12: We need to build a confidence so that alot of women can be part of the AI workforce.

00:14:20: learning that stops at content.

00:14:22: I think a lot of courses and certification do not create mobility, we need to make sure it doesn't stop by just having learning in them.

00:14:33: You have to make the people who've learned about this can be part of their portfolio.

00:14:39: deployment experience That's what we'd love to see.

00:14:45: The hiring sometimes... People are hiring And they're just hiring on pedigree of a potential.

00:14:54: Why am I saying that?

00:14:55: is that employers today complain about having this AI talent shortage?

00:15:01: But for me, and that's why i'm here you know in Singapore but also in Europe and in the Middle East Is that today we must make sure That everybody has had lots of experiences In their field can take and join the AI workforce.

00:15:17: So it means that while you are filtering out of where we're seeing, and were taking a lot of the AI engineers or the tech

00:15:25: etc.,

00:15:26: We shouldn't forget those who have domain expertise And what I call the carrier pivotors.

00:15:33: Most likely them will be driving adoption and change.

00:15:38: so i think we need to see.

00:15:41: I think Global Women in AI is about also having the sponsorship gap.

00:15:48: Mentorship helps and sponsorships change the pathways of people, as well as visibility.

00:15:57: That's why when women do not see other women leading in AI there that have a big space which isn't for them.

00:16:06: We are trying to make sure we can reinvent and reinvents the force of reinventing ourselves with a pipeline for women in AI, which could be really big but not empty.

00:16:22: And that's the blockage I see at the

00:16:23: moment.".

00:16:24: Yeah no...that totally true!

00:16:28: Before my accident happened, I wasn't that much interested by the advancements of technology.

00:16:35: AI was a conversation about... My accident happened in twenty-twenty two.

00:16:41: That year where chat GPT got a lot of attention and I remember waking up at hospital thinking well this is going to be a challenge because how am i gonna return work?

00:16:51: How are we doing things before without thinking twice?

00:16:57: And that's when I discovered how much technology was going to help me in this disability situation, and AI became like a major focus on that.

00:17:10: So not only did I discover that AI is used within the innovative prosthetics so it actually integrated into my bionic arm... Actually i brought some props Tram Ann if you're interested!

00:17:27: I'm not wearing the arm, but this is what it looks like.

00:17:32: Look at that!

00:17:33: It's

00:17:33: got... This has a battery hatch so normally there is a battery inside and you close it.

00:17:39: The harness as how it sits on your shoulder But its missing an element.

00:17:44: hold on.. It misses the hand which i've got here.

00:17:48: So take a look of that.

00:17:49: ..but the secret ...the really exciting bit of it Is that....this is the liner That I wear On my residual limbs.

00:17:57: My children called my residual limb the tiny arm, so this is going on top of my tiny arm and it's got all these electrodes.

00:18:04: And they sit on the surface of my skin!

00:18:07: So if I want to make a movement... ...I have think about the movement in my head.

00:18:12: then I flexed the remaining muscles in my little arm.

00:18:15: Those electrodes pick up the movements and translate that into electric impulses That go through the arms and activate them in hand.

00:18:26: And that is already quite interesting, but sometimes it would take quite a bit of time between the moment I thought about movement and the moment when actually gets executed.

00:18:38: So this where AI comes in.

00:18:40: so everytime i use the ARM data get collected and stored on an external server.

00:18:46: then once there's enough data to play with swaps over from being a pattern recognition algorithm to a predictive algorithm.

00:19:00: And so the arm starts understanding when and how I make movement which muscles are activated in order to make specific movements, it register that next time i'm flexing Those those muscles it knows oh she wants to open up the hands.

00:19:17: so in that case it accelerates that movement and does it for me.

00:19:22: So, It sounds like a really small real life application of AI but its useful because it helps not have free ups So much brain power in order to make it happen.

00:19:38: so, It also means i can talk To you and flex at the same time And executed like that.

00:19:43: but I thought That was interesting when I first discovered it.

00:19:46: Okay well need to educate myself.

00:19:48: AI in prosthetics definitely Interesting.

00:19:51: how is going help me return to work?

00:19:54: I had to explore.

00:19:55: all of The tools were my disposal.

00:19:58: My education forced in that sense, but also it opened up this huge world.

00:20:04: And then when we talked about global women and AI I was like well actually yes because it is so useful!

00:20:12: We probably underestimate our capacity to understand it and to activate it.

00:20:18: You mentioned the risks of not having women involved – I can illustrate with an example.

00:20:24: do you remember say chat GPT to generate a photo of CEO.

00:20:32: And guess what happened?

00:20:34: It was always a male CEO that came up, right.

00:20:37: and then the second thing I tried obviously...I put in a prompt to say can you generate

00:20:43: me?".

00:20:44: In the first iterations it would always generate my photo with four limbs and i kept telling ChatGPT like yeah but i'm missing two limbs.

00:20:54: And then a few months later, it had started understanding it a bit more.

00:21:02: But even the representation was completely wrong like the prosthetics that were designing where two sci-fi looked like cyborg.

00:21:11: and actually what I discovered is that Otobock is the manufacturer of these bionic prosthetics and they've launched joint campaign with Microsoft.

00:21:25: It's the campaign is called Dear AI, but it's basically the education of the systems and saying like well people with limb loss don't necessarily look.

00:21:35: The way you think they look.

00:21:36: actually this is what they looked like.

00:21:38: so isn't educational campaign?

00:21:41: I can totally be behind that um But he goes to the heart Of What You're Saying.

00:21:47: Is That the system if its educated only by a specific group then the output is only going to be reflective of that specific group of people.

00:21:57: I mean, in your mind what risks emerge when innovation lacks diverse perspectives?

00:22:04: What's the risk here?

00:22:04: apart from photographs being generated wrong are there any further risks you can see ?

00:22:10: I think it's a feedback loop because it explains why it gets worse on its own rather than better and also easy to follow out.

00:22:20: And so women are less visible, usually in AI leadership.

00:22:23: Search engine as you mentioned Sarah and AI systems surface fewer woman leaders.

00:22:30: So the public perception an institutional recognition screw further.

00:22:35: so fewer Women gets invited quoted funded or promoted?

00:22:39: And you know to your point when you ask the machine You know there's gonna be only you know Only a few under next generation of AI.

00:22:45: genetic knowledge learns from what records and repeats it.

00:22:50: So, its us ,its about women who needs to really start using making sure that we are educating the machine.

00:22:57: so we need to be trained.

00:22:59: We know how.

00:23:01: use in a best way as you say The argument for acting now rather than waiting for culture shift.

00:23:07: I think model being trained today is writing this imbalance into infrastructure and infrastructure very hard.

00:23:15: correct after fact under representation becomes too much automated bias.

00:23:21: So that's why waiting does not work and so it is very important, dad... And the way we want to be helping in driving this revolution with Global Women EI is every woman should not at the passenger seat but as a driver seat making sure you are driving it.

00:23:46: it happens yourself.

00:23:47: Don't wait and be passive but you must act, because your domain of expertise is just about using the tool to make your voice or work much more visible so that we have a very good representation in our system on how we view things, ways of thinking etc.

00:24:10: being represented by the system.

00:24:13: And so I think this is not simply about gender parity, but it's building better AI for everyone.

00:24:23: So that's what we're trying to achieve here with the work we are doing together.

00:24:28: I think that's very, very necessary.

00:24:31: Absolutely this diversity of thought obviously needs to be part of the setup.

00:24:37: i totally agree but you mentioned about The Future Of Work.

00:24:40: so This is something That...I Think About A Lot Because I Have Two Teenage Daughters That Im Trying To Support In Their Future Choices Right?

00:24:51: So They Talk About Wanting To Study And They Debate Like What Kind Of Topics They Should Be Focusing On.

00:24:56: And I guess the question is, what can parents tell their children?

00:25:01: What's going to be important as you become an adult in a world where AI could potentially probably soon enough do everything that we can and probably even better.

00:25:17: Like what would say our children?

00:25:20: It's very good questions I have to say, Sarah what you just explained and shared with AI can do for humans is very good.

00:25:37: With the progress of healthcare and tech which we went through a lot You are really for me the optimism about how future looks like and humanity because in everybody's mind It's when I talk about AI and spending a lot of time thinking what the future looks like for us professionals, our next generation.

00:26:10: Of course you know that what we just shared is really good but in most people smile.

00:26:16: The first question would be replace by AI with my job, you know will still be there.

00:26:23: Will exist.

00:26:23: or what should I do?

00:26:25: Spend a lot of time and actually at CFT we have wrote the book My Co-Founder And With Us CFT We Have Wrote A Book Which Is Called The AIfication Of Talent And The AIfication Of Jobs.

00:26:41: How Do We Future?

00:26:42: Proof Our Workforce And Making Sure That The Next Generation Can Be Part Of It?

00:26:48: And so it's really, really critical because in everybody... You know, first I would love to encourage everyone who read our white paper which is free.

00:26:58: And you can really make sense about what with you as an individual?

00:27:03: Make sure that you can future prove yourself in AI.

00:27:06: and how do you supercharge your self with what AI can do and what can't do when it's the framework?

00:27:14: we have our own taxonomies and our own frameworks so i'm not here to tell you but very inviting but for our future talent, so I'm a mom of three girls as well.

00:27:26: So I do care a lot about the future and you know it's not gonna be easy because in our maybe when we started out with Carrier It was quite predictable.

00:27:37: You go to university ,you can't even know how to navigate or move the ladder up and down And one draw very safe today is going to really different.

00:27:51: So for us, AI is not about seniority.

00:27:56: It's not about job function it's not your domain of expertise.

00:28:00: Today with AI what I really say to the next generation has spent a lot of time mentoring them or even hiring them.

00:28:08: I hire lots of graduates and What i see?

00:28:11: Of course some are very digital because this is what they use, you know with their phone.

00:28:17: They've been educated using technology really well And a couple of years ago when I started unit at Framework, at Skills and Pathways during COVID.

00:28:28: Basically i spent a lot time with graduates um and was concerned for them already with COVID because some of them didn't have access to internship or even you know work experience back then because they were stuck at home and couldn't have that experience.

00:28:44: so how do you do that?

00:28:46: At the same time I developed a skills framework which is called SHINE.

00:28:51: Shine was for, you need to develop.

00:28:53: For S which is what do you think Sarah?

00:28:57: Shine framework!

00:28:59: Super

00:28:59: power.

00:29:00: So What Do You Think Are The Skills You Really Really Need To Be Good At In A World By Lab By Technology During COVID How Do You Thing That You Can Really Really Be Different?

00:29:12: So You Need To Develop.

00:29:13: As For Soft Skills No, not super powered.

00:29:19: They're very much complimenting the hard skills.

00:29:22: so soft skills So you know all this collaboration that teamwork understanding people listening All of these super important

00:29:30: age

00:29:31: for heart skill understanding really well your domain which is really important.

00:29:36: This what we do by going to university, getting a degree

00:29:39: etc.,

00:29:40: but soft skills and hard skills... What you need know if you want prepare yourself for the world of industry?

00:29:48: Industry knowledge!

00:29:49: You have to understand the industry.

00:29:51: Soft Skills, Hard Skills, Industry Knowledge and Mindset thinking like an entrepreneur, for example.

00:29:58: This adaptability changing things that you used to be quite the way your work try to change it and being much more adaptable resilience open two new things building I love because now am a more I am one an entrepreneur.

00:30:14: but having this entrepreneurial skill is really important Because we are in world of building things.

00:30:20: So if shape yourself with always starting something new You will see.

00:30:24: so start young start when you are at university or, uh ,you know.

00:30:28: When your school starts to do things that they're really different.

00:30:33: so then you can test the ability to build things because you learn a lot about yourself what you like and don't like but start as soon as possible.

00:30:40: making being an entrepreneur my age is very different much harder if you start younger who you are and perhaps the type of people that could compliment yourself because you cannot do it alone.

00:30:55: So, you will learn so much!

00:30:57: And E for experience.

00:30:58: get your self very quickly I think before maybe our experiences about having lots and lots of experiences give yourselves a certificate.

00:31:09: hard work or start-up work for a lot of organization The more i think before was to be linear but today.

00:31:18: At CFT, for example we hire people that are coming from totally different industry and background.

00:31:24: Biology policy but they want to be because they want To learn about the world of finance technology.

00:31:30: so I think it's About getting yourself a lot Of different skills And today is the shine framework with AI i Think Is Totally Different?

00:31:46: potential graduates, I think what we call at CFT is being supercharged.

00:31:51: What does it really mean?

00:31:54: Being supercharged today means that you need to have a very strong domain of experience and its hard for students.

00:32:01: having the domain of experiences which will bring Domain of experience, really important.

00:32:10: Using all the AI tools that is available and today access to AI tools are much more available and sometimes free.

00:32:17: so get yourself to learn a lot about the tool that's available.

00:32:21: Supercharge Yourself is domain-of-experience, AI tools and also digital And future proof yourself.

00:32:28: So knowing your domain of expertise I'll give you an example.

00:32:31: If want be good at marketing Don't go much deeper.

00:32:36: What are the AI tools that will help me to be a better marketer so you can really future-proof yourself?

00:32:42: So having those three ingredients, it'll make your very good supercharge professional.

00:32:48: and all of these skills today we're trying hard to embed in every thing we do – courses, programmes, academies etc.

00:32:58: I encourage everyone.

00:33:00: which is not as obvious is system thinker.

00:33:05: All the start-up in Silicon Valley, and we are on a second wave now.

00:33:10: I usually give an example of cursor.

00:33:13: Cursor it's very good example but I don't know if you're aware but cursor its'a small startup in Silicon valley But in four years, they have done incredibly well.

00:33:24: Why?

00:33:24: Because all these people are being system thinkers.

00:33:28: System thinker is a level where you look at aggregating older tools on AI and trying to start working with agents And this you can start that any age.

00:33:40: So I think if there's one... Let's say a rear that I would love, you know our kids to be good at is also being really good in what they do.

00:33:52: So domain use all the AI tools that they could, try to start thinking of building something yourself.

00:33:59: A system or anything as such so you can explore and how do combine your own workflow with a system thinker level which will really give you very complete skills in the world of AI.

00:34:17: Oh my gosh, I am definitely going to show this episode to my daughters just for the motivation.

00:34:23: Because if you listen to the media every article seems to be focused on the fact that AI is going to steal everyone's job.

00:34:31: but when i listened You're very clear on the fact that lifelong education is necessary in that sense, because the world of technology evolves so quickly.

00:34:47: if you are not checking-in on a regular basis to educate yourself and what's new then you're missing out.

00:34:53: I wondered about... Out of everything that you've described If it is adaptability That has becoming the most important skill of all.

00:35:02: So thats' what i'm thinking Because.. And you mentioned how hard It Is To become an entrepreneur when your already a seasoned professional spend a lifetime in corporate environments, I know exactly how that feels but from completely different angles.

00:35:15: So when I woke up and hospital, I discovered the level of trauma.

00:35:31: Incredible is this neuroplasticity, the ability to absorb new information and create newer pathways in your brain so you can literally rewire your brain.

00:35:43: The side effects of that were incredible because it expanded my memory my way of absorbing information that was new, and it was born from survival instinct because all the sudden you instead of having two hands.

00:35:59: You only have one hand.

00:36:00: how are we going to solve?

00:36:01: All of the problems attached to just being one handed?

00:36:06: but I also noticed that i could read a text at the same time as my husband And We tested It A few times so like a text that you can read at least three times faster than him.

00:36:20: And that's not because I'm so much more intelligent, but then he tested me afterwards and said no way you can have read all of this!

00:36:31: Can you recall it?

00:36:36: So just neuroplasticity.

00:36:37: what i am saying is don't wish anyone to go through a traumatic event, but the neuroplasticity is something that we were born with.

00:36:47: We used as children so much to learn all of new things in our environment and build these newer pathways – to build experience!

00:36:56: And it tapers off after awhile right?

00:36:58: That superpower at some point when we've reached adulthood around twenty-one years old then becomes harder But you can trick your brain into being neuroplastic again, and it's by doing things that you haven't done before.

00:37:16: So take yourself out of your comfort zone do something new and exciting because then It forces your brain to go.

00:37:23: oh I don't know the situation.

00:37:25: i need To figure out a way to solve this problem right?

00:37:28: And You know what.

00:37:29: its innovation is born Out Of problems That we get fed up with and that We want to find A solution for.

00:37:36: So does that resonate with you as well, this idea of neuroplasticity?

00:37:40: I love it and i think we are totally right.

00:37:43: We went to the first wave of AI where he was in our fourth wave.

00:37:50: so The First Wave Of AI Was What We Called Predictive AI So It Was Roughly Between Twenty-Ten To Twenty-Twenty Two Where AI Can Detect Pattern, Fraud credit scoring, spam filtering recommendation all of this.

00:38:04: It was a powerful but invisible sitting behind the system.

00:38:08: then after that we moved to the wave two which is around November, what we call cognitive assistant which is when AI could draft summarize translate research code etc.

00:38:23: it became more like a collaborator and any professional who would reach without the technical you know background.

00:38:30: The third wave was just from twenty five to twenty six.

00:38:34: where coming you know to this way which is moving really, very far.

00:38:39: Which we call cognitive autonomy...which now you have.

00:38:42: AI stopped on questions but it's starting.

00:38:45: take action using the same email documents of where people use from tools through our agents..from support to execution so that you can act and to your point.

00:38:58: And when I listen to you and your inspiring journey, what are doing?

00:39:02: How do we use AI now?

00:39:04: We're entering into the fourth wave which is physical AI!

00:39:08: Which in the beginning was a very new wave where intelligence leaves the screen and enters machine that moves.

00:39:16: So it's like NVIDIA frame its twenty-twenty six developer conference around exactly the same of this with world models robotics platform built into embedded systems and industrial partners, you know a lot of partners starting to use.

00:39:34: But that is the line that connects between different waves.

00:39:39: now we are starting in fourth wave And it shows that AI can move like things that touch difficult words.

00:39:48: The governance question stop being whether an answer is accurate about weather machine is safe.

00:39:57: You know, it's like.

00:39:58: you are unique.

00:39:59: Are you trusting that machine?

00:40:04: Like, you can... Can I say?

00:40:09: I don't know but I imagine.

00:40:11: Do you trust that machine will act for you and that assisting technology and productivity sits right at the boundary?

00:40:19: which is why it's super interesting.

00:40:21: what we're seeing with what your were saying was moving from AI to AI that could execute than now AI that can move up And so that I think is really, really interesting to see and combat.

00:40:39: It's a bit scary as well though!

00:40:40: Of course i can talk about the governance and the ethics of which are where you know...I love spending my time but at your point it was very scary.

00:40:47: Do

00:40:48: you know what?

00:40:49: I once presented at my daughter's school assembly, and so imagine like a hundred kids sitting there listening attentively.

00:40:58: And i was kind of worried to be a bit too detailed on the gory parts.

00:41:05: but first question that received from one of the kids is like miss miss why did not bleed out while lying in tracks?

00:41:14: That was one thing.

00:41:16: And then the second thing, but miss-miss with your arm if somebody remote hacks into you're on because they get access to the platform that all of your personal data is on and so they take control off your arm and your own picks up a gun and kill somebody.

00:41:38: who's going to prison?

00:41:39: Is it you, is the manufacturer of the prosthetics.

00:41:43: And so I thought that was a clever question for an eleven-year old at the time.

00:41:50: but its core issue we're facing right?

00:41:54: Its accountability.. At some point its devolved... We can't really send an AI agent in prison to regulate this.

00:42:06: So there is an ethical point- Exactly!

00:42:08: But at the same time, I'm bringing it back to this human augmentation conversation.

00:42:14: that does help you quite a lot...to grow beyond what you can physically or mentally do.

00:42:22: It's an add on.

00:42:25: At this point i wanted share project with you.

00:42:29: So I'm hoping that in December, twenty-twenty seven.

00:42:33: I can go on my next expedition and that is Antarctica.

00:42:39: so uh... That's why i asked you the question right at the beginning, Antarctica or Mars?

00:42:43: You answered Antarctica!

00:42:48: The idea is that we go as a group.

00:42:50: now of course My husband pour him.

00:42:51: he has to come with me.

00:42:52: He's got no choice there.

00:42:55: but But the actual thing that we wanted to test out is, I'm not a polar explorer yet.

00:43:04: And i have twenty percent less body to go there.

00:43:09: Antarctica and the expedition that we want to do is actually trekking through the South Pole.

00:43:15: so imagine one hundred and eleven kilometers long minus forty degrees celsius you know.

00:43:22: can we use technology as a support to go.

00:43:27: So we were thinking about using as many wearable AI supportive devices in order to track our bodies, how do we cope with the lack of oxygen that's at three thousand meters an altitude?

00:43:43: How do we track our glucose levels and all these wearables?

00:43:48: think about it as your smartwatch or you know, your biometrics recording wristbands.

00:43:56: Exoskeletons would be forming part of this as well?

00:43:59: It's like how can we use technology in order to enable us go into the harshest environment on Earth... I mean is called this place enough!

00:44:09: Like.

00:44:10: do you believe A that i'm completely crazy for attempting something?

00:44:18: Is technology going to be, is it realistic that technology can recommend you and help you do something seems rather impossible.

00:44:27: It's so, so interesting and I look forward to it.

00:44:39: I personally am surprised, but i did also choose Antarctica for the same reason because we have a planet worth understanding before looking from another one.

00:45:04: And I think Antarctica is where human questions get answered honestly where you have isolation, confinement.

00:45:13: Extreme colds are studied there as another way for long duration space.

00:45:19: but it means that we can really use data and all the tools available to really see how far we can get.

00:45:27: And so I'm glad, actually that it was very close what you have and close your heart because this is exactly a word also had in mind when I say why she said that.

00:45:40: but It's definitely worth for all of us work with You To make sure We understand What it takes cold and this kind of environment.

00:45:55: So thanks a lot for doing this, it's really exciting!

00:45:59: Well I can't tell you how excited i am...I've been dreaming about it all summer..it was so hot here in the UK over the summer....I was like where is the coldest place on earth?

00:46:08: But that's the central thinking I have.

00:46:11: is technology innovation, yes awesome but only if it serves a human.

00:46:17: Only we can use it to augment ourselves and do things that are seemingly impossible.

00:46:23: so watch out space will keep you informed!

00:46:27: Before we move on i've got another one of those quickfire questions for.

00:46:36: But what do you think is the biggest opportunity AI creates?

00:46:40: Access.

00:46:41: Access!

00:46:42: Nice one, Biggest AI Misconception

00:46:45: That's we are living in a technology race and I think it's a talent-race.

00:46:50: Now i think that were not racing each other but racing for irrelevance.

00:46:55: Okay nice one.

00:46:57: Most exciting healthcare innovation.

00:47:00: So AI takes notes.

00:47:02: so doctors stop typing.

00:47:06: And so technology repairing, you know a relationship.

00:47:09: Technology broke.

00:47:10: Yeah I agree with that.

00:47:12: What is the most underestimated technology?

00:47:16: Physically high!

00:47:17: i think people thinks that agents in software.

00:47:21: at the end of the story.

00:47:22: but i think the moment intelligence move into machines That moves every safety question we have been debating become physical.

00:47:32: So...I think it's important to look at physical AI.

00:47:35: Okay, very good.

00:47:36: What about this?

00:47:38: what's the most important skill for the next generation?

00:47:41: I think critical judgment judgement.

00:47:44: everything else is become cheap.

00:47:47: Yes!

00:47:47: Very Good!

00:47:48: Critical thinking...I will make sure i tell my daughters about that.

00:47:52: okay last one are you an AI optimist or an AI realist?

00:47:59: Optimist.

00:48:00: Good..i'm glad you said that because What gives you the most optimism about the future?

00:48:08: Women who are in AI that coming from law, compliance, medical teaching with no technical background and no permission doing their work anyway.

00:48:20: That's great!

00:48:21: That was my final question Traman.

00:48:26: this is very good.

00:48:27: thank you so much for making the time I know it's late your end.

00:48:31: I feel very honoured that you made some time for me today.

00:48:38: And, That's it!

00:48:39: For this episode of A Taste Of Bionics.

00:48:41: Thank You Very Much For Listening and I hope you enjoyed as much as i did.

00:48:46: and you my dear listener please subscribe if you want to see the rest of the series.

00:48:51: never miss an episode that way.

00:48:54: don't forget to give us tasteofbionics a rating why not?

00:48:58: on Spotify & Apple Podcast.

00:49:01: We will be back in two weeks and, in the meantime feel free to let us know what you think.

00:49:06: Leave some feedback tell us your story or ask us your questions.

00:49:12: just send an email to podcast at Otobock.com And we're looking forward to hearing from you.

00:49:19: stay happy Stay safe!

00:49:21: See ya next time.

00:49:22: Thank You so much for having me Sarah.

00:49:24: thank you bye-bye.