The future of human bionics - Georgia Näder and Oliver Jakobi on tradition and transformation.

00:00:00: She said, for her, the biggest difference would be if she could write again, because she can't hold the pen and she can't put the tip of her finger on the pen anymore to write.

00:00:08: Yeah, we did the stimulation for one hour.

00:00:10: She tried to write before.

00:00:11: It was very hard for her.

00:00:12: It took very long.

00:00:13: And after the stimulation, she could write properly.

00:00:16: And she was writing faster and faster and bigger and bigger.

00:00:18: And she started crying.

00:00:20: And her husband started crying.

00:00:21: And our physiotherapist started crying.

00:00:23: And I started crying.

00:00:24: And it was so nice to see.

00:00:26: kind of a dream to write again come true.

00:00:29: And like I said earlier, I think it's really often these very small moments and very small things that people are able to do again that make a huge difference to their everyday lives.

00:00:48: Welcome to a taste of Bionics.

00:00:50: I'm your host, Ranga Yogeshwar.

00:00:52: And today we explore a story that spans more than a century.

00:00:58: from wartime prosthetics to cutting-edge neurotechnology, and a company that has become synonymous with human mobility, the company's name, Otto Bock.

00:01:12: Join me today because we have two leaders who embody both continuity on one side and tradition and transformation on the other side.

00:01:24: We first have Georgia, Georgia Nader.

00:01:27: Georgia is representing the fourth generation of the founding family.

00:01:32: So she's the great-granddaughter of Otto Bock, who founded the company in nineteen nineteen.

00:01:39: It was called Octoberische Industrie GmbH.

00:01:43: And Georgia is regional president Western Europe.

00:01:48: She stands for modern leadership, digitization, sustainability, and a new human-centered vision of innovation.

00:01:58: And next to her, you can see Oliver Jakubi.

00:02:01: And Oliver has a fascinating story.

00:02:04: He began thirty-five years back as an apprentice and rose through the ranks to become the CEO.

00:02:11: leading the company through global expansion and most recently its landmark IPO in October, twenty twenty five.

00:02:23: So both of you welcome Georgia.

00:02:26: Welcome Oliver.

00:02:28: Nice to have you on the show.

00:02:30: Thank you for having us.

00:02:31: First of all, let me start with you, Georgia.

00:02:35: Otto Bock is unique.

00:02:37: I mean, if you just look back four generations, what has happened?

00:02:42: So you carry a century-old family legacy.

00:02:48: How did you sort of come into Otto Bock?

00:02:51: Did you sort of as a child already encounter this, what's this living memory also of your childhood?

00:02:59: Yeah, definitely.

00:03:01: I always say I really kind of grew up within the company.

00:03:04: So for me, it was always a huge part of my life from, I don't know, from until I can think back to.

00:03:13: So basically, we always spent breakfast, lunch and dinner talking about the company a lot of times after school.

00:03:20: My father took me right to the company, spent a lot of time with employees back then.

00:03:26: Often now I encounter people who say, oh, I still know you, then Back then you were so small and you just started walking.

00:03:34: So yeah, it's really, really nice to kind of grew that I grew up with it and basically into it.

00:03:40: And for me, it's really a huge part of my early childhood memories and basically of my identity and all my life.

00:03:47: If you recall one story of your childhood, what would that story sound like?

00:03:53: I think there's many.

00:03:54: It's very hard to choose from, right?

00:03:56: So I think it's definitely the times when I had lunch with my grandfather and took kind of walks through the fabrication halls with him, with this little dog back then.

00:04:10: Or when a lot of very nice employees back then tried to keep me busy whenever my dad had meetings and gave me some little tasks to do.

00:04:20: For example, once I did a silicone finger, which turned out actually quite nice.

00:04:26: taught me how to work with carbon, for example.

00:04:30: So I think there's many, many different stories, both from kind of the family side, but also from the production side or time with employees.

00:04:39: that really kind of formed me in a way.

00:04:43: And I think one person who also had a very big impact, apart from my family on that, obviously, was also Heinrich Popoff, who often took me with him to, for example, running clinics.

00:04:55: which is a weekend where he teaches amputees to run again after, yeah, sometimes running, not running for like twenty years or maybe right after amputation.

00:05:06: So that was definitely also something that was very special.

00:05:10: Very emotional.

00:05:11: We'll come and speak about also this aspect, which is very crucial in your business.

00:05:16: But let me also, well, take in Oliver.

00:05:21: Oliver, your career has been remarkable.

00:05:24: It started thirty five years back as an apprentice.

00:05:29: So tell me more.

00:05:31: It was actually more an accident.

00:05:34: So because

00:05:35: an accident.

00:05:36: OK.

00:05:37: My my history with other bog is also longer.

00:05:40: So my mom was working for more than forty years for Ottobock.

00:05:45: And it was like this that she was similar to Draugler.

00:05:50: So we were talking a bit too often, in my opinion, about Ottobock.

00:05:56: When I was when I was a child, I said okay, I probably will never work for the book.

00:06:03: So that changed, obviously.

00:06:06: So I came finally, I started at Ottobock.

00:06:11: What did you do when you started?

00:06:13: The first

00:06:14: nine months I was actually working now in D. And then so it was.

00:06:19: it was a department where you have also practical application.

00:06:26: And yeah, being too left handed they ask me maybe it's better if you if you move more into into the administration?

00:06:36: and i had a financial background.

00:06:38: so that's why.

00:06:40: or economical background that's why i'm.

00:06:43: Yeah, I moved more into the admin and I started relatively early in the export department.

00:06:52: So that's the sales department responsible for those markets where we have no subsidiary.

00:06:59: So when I came, it was in two.

00:07:05: So it just opened the border to Eastern Germany, but Eastern Europe.

00:07:12: So when they said, okay, this is a new market, you are new, so don't you want to be part of this development?

00:07:20: And I agreed.

00:07:22: So I started traveling through Eastern Europe, Poland, Croatia, Czech Republic.

00:07:29: So we opened up subsidiaries there.

00:07:31: Finally, I ended up... in russia.

00:07:35: so i was twenty five twenty six.

00:07:37: i moved to russia opened up the subsidiary.

00:07:41: so it was planned for one year.

00:07:44: Turned out to be a bit longer.

00:07:45: so finally i

00:07:47: bought it.

00:07:51: So i spent the year twenty five years.

00:07:54: so i came back.

00:07:55: nineteen two thousand twenty.

00:07:57: beginning of corona.

00:07:59: i came back.

00:08:00: so and yeah for me definitely it never felt like i was working in one company.

00:08:08: so when i started it was a very small company or relatively small company.

00:08:13: so less than a hundred million euro turnover and now we're talking about a company of one point five billion.

00:08:22: so it was a constant.

00:08:25: Yeah, growing constant transformation constant change and it was always interesting.

00:08:31: Well, if I look at your story, there is something special because this is not sort of everyday company.

00:08:41: You are dealing with people, you are dealing with people who have lost a leg, a limb.

00:08:47: So what makes this so special?

00:08:50: This is not a standard company, Georgia.

00:08:54: Yeah, I think it's very difficult to describe.

00:08:56: I think once you kind of see someone who kind of went through a really hard time in their life, losing a limb through an accident, through sickness, cancer, or whatever it is, diabetes, and then kind of coming out of that again through our help, I think it's really, really special.

00:09:20: And I think it's really... Yeah, more the small small moments that kind of describe what we do very well.

00:09:26: For example, I talked about the running clinics earlier and we once had a family father there who was running for the first time since his amputation and at some point he came to me crying and I was like, oh god, is everything okay?

00:09:40: Like what happened?

00:09:41: And he said, yeah, everything is fine.

00:09:42: But when I come back home after this weekend, it will be the first time that I can play with my daughter and actually run after her.

00:09:51: or people who can for the first time stand up from a wheelchair and be on eye level with people again.

00:09:57: I think that's really the moments that define Autobog and define what we do every day and what makes it so special.

00:10:06: Oliver, you mentioned the incredible growth of this company, but this is not only growth in the sense of volume.

00:10:14: But also, well, different qualities.

00:10:17: You are entering AI sensors, intelligent exoskeletons and so on.

00:10:24: We've talked a lot about this in this podcast.

00:10:28: What makes AutoBox so special for you?

00:10:32: in the sense that it's perhaps a different company from all the others?

00:10:38: since actually the beginning so founding auto box so it was always.

00:10:45: Innovation driven yeah.

00:10:46: so we really spent a lot of effort time money.

00:10:51: we have great people in our R&D department

00:10:54: to be.

00:10:55: Really innovation leader yeah.

00:10:57: so we are coming with new ideas with new products but also especially I would say the last.

00:11:06: five seven years we are more and more involving our users in our development.

00:11:13: so um it was a company which so auto bog had had a very good background so he was a specialist so he invented something then roger's grandfather max neda.

00:11:27: So he was a clinician and really had a lot of ideas which he brought into into practice.

00:11:37: So now we are we are still having this great minds in the company but we have now the opportunity to engage with millions of user we have out there and asking for their opinion what is really needed and that's what we then.

00:11:56: Yeah, incorporate in our development process and therefore I think we have this.

00:12:02: Yeah, quite unique position in the market.

00:12:06: Yeah, so listening to to those who are at the end our customers bring their ideas into solutions.

00:12:14: Now you have some very special applications like if I think of Paralympics where this sort of feedback has been very intense.

00:12:23: But do you organize this?

00:12:25: Is there a fixed process?

00:12:28: I mean, feedback can be everything, but it has to be specific to fuel innovation.

00:12:37: So it's not a fixed process.

00:12:39: So we have our own... patient care clinics.

00:12:42: yeah so we are seeing more than half a million patients every year ourselves.

00:12:48: so we of course during these processes we can we can talk to them.

00:12:53: but when you're talking about the Paralympics I think we have.

00:12:58: A lot of contact with those sportsmen.

00:13:01: We have a lot of events.

00:13:02: It's not only the running clinics.

00:13:03: It's not only Paralympics.

00:13:05: These are events which are happening constantly.

00:13:08: And we are there.

00:13:09: And we have, of course, ambassadors.

00:13:11: So, Roger mentioned already, Heinrich Popov, but we have others also who are part of this Paralympic movement.

00:13:21: They're collecting information, they're talking to people, they're coming up with contacts or with ideas and saying, look, there was a request from this person, can we do something about it?

00:13:33: Yeah, so it's not, I mean, we are Germans, we like processes, but here it's not really, it's not an organized process.

00:13:42: So everybody who wants to give feedback is allowed to give and can give feedback.

00:13:46: I think some of these people that you talked about now are already part of our... R&D team now and really working in the middle of it, giving input and again also filtering all the market feedback that is out there.

00:14:01: I think Heinrich is one of the best connected people probably in this market.

00:14:07: He knows everything and everyone, which is always very nice.

00:14:12: We also set up some specific processes.

00:14:16: For example, we have a a process called Spotlight, where we kind of interview users on certain innovations and what they think about it very early on and what they would wish for.

00:14:28: So that's, I think, something that... It's also relatively new and it was super cool to see how they know exactly what they want and what they don't want and what they need.

00:14:40: And you just have to ask some questions to get these amazing insights.

00:14:44: But what is interesting is we live in a time where prosthetics merge now with robotics, data merges with therapy.

00:14:53: We have the advent of artificial intelligence.

00:14:56: to some degree, there are sometimes disruptive changes.

00:15:00: I mean, things which were inimaginable, perhaps for your patients, but now suddenly it's possible.

00:15:07: How do you go about that process?

00:15:11: Very good question.

00:15:12: Yeah, I think it's always, you know, like.

00:15:14: obviously we have so much knowledge and learning from all of these.

00:15:18: past years and all of these people who are with us for such a long time, for example like Oliver and many, many more.

00:15:25: I'm always surprised how many people we have for there since twenty, thirty, forty years and bring so much of this knowledge of the market, of the company, of things that work that didn't work.

00:15:38: But I think then, obviously, it's always good to also challenge yourself a little bit and bring these new ideas, which then maybe need some convincing.

00:15:46: Because not everything that is new is always easy.

00:15:49: People sometimes don't like change that much.

00:15:52: So I think for us, it was always about really trying things out, also trying new things out.

00:16:00: And I think that also always made sure that we had this innovation leadership position by trying things.

00:16:07: Many of them also didn't work out, but if you never try, you will never know.

00:16:12: And I think then really convincing through good functionality, good arguments why this is the right path to go, really focusing on user centricity, what Oliver also talked about.

00:16:27: So really coming from the user perspective, but maybe doesn't need that much convincing anymore because everyone sees that it's a good path to

00:16:35: go.

00:16:36: Within this podcast, naturally, we have spoken to some great users who are very competent, who to some degree even develop and are active in that course.

00:16:51: But if I look at innovation, it's a bit like a pyramid.

00:16:54: So you have a very small amount of highly advanced processes and so on.

00:17:02: But how is the process of well bringing that to the big majority?

00:17:09: I mean, you might have a test which might work, but well, making that a standard is, I believe, quite a challenge, Oliver.

00:17:18: Yes and no.

00:17:20: So, I mean, we, of course, know... Our user groups and new technologies.

00:17:26: you're right you're focusing normally then on the first on the smaller group on.

00:17:33: The high active high interested people.

00:17:37: so you need this first mover always to establish a certain technology.

00:17:43: But in each technology, so you can later define for which target group it's actually defined.

00:17:50: And you can change it.

00:17:52: So for example, when we are talking about microprocessor controlled needs, so I know that you spoke to John McFall, and he explained what kind of procedures he's wearing.

00:18:04: This was actually, so the first technology was really for the... hi active and and your high functional users.

00:18:15: But this technology removed also into the less mobile patient group who needs more safety.

00:18:24: So this microprocessor control systems are now spanning all over the patient groups.

00:18:34: So everybody can use and can benefit from this technology.

00:18:40: So

00:18:41: it's the first step to get it.

00:18:44: You need this first move on.

00:18:46: But I can imagine in these days of miracles and wonders, if you look at all the technology coming up, there is a certain temptation that you become more tech driven than human driven.

00:18:59: So how do you sort of, you know, take care not to shoot in the wrong direction?

00:19:08: produce perhaps a very intelligent prosthesis, which is technology-wise interesting, but perhaps not so usable.

00:19:17: I mean, at the end it's common sense.

00:19:20: So when this three-D printing hype started some years ago, everybody was asking, what do you have three-D printed?

00:19:30: Only that's what we need to three-D print.

00:19:34: At the end, we are dealing with people who have to get the benefit from our products.

00:19:42: And if we make them too complicated, and if the control system is out of their normal usage or out of their normal behavior, then it wouldn't work.

00:19:58: So that's why we We keep it simple, so we keep it usable and developing it then according to the abilities of our user.

00:20:08: I think a few years ago we were, I think, a much more tech-driven and product-focused company than we are today.

00:20:16: I think it was really this German engineering, not invented here in Rome, very focused on, we can do the best functionality and all these things.

00:20:27: functionalities, like you said, maybe we're not even wanted or needed or people couldn't even use properly in their everyday life.

00:20:35: And I think they're really this part of user centricity and also developing for the users, asking questions, being very close to the market, like Oliver said, through the investment into patient care, for example, and having this closeness, really taking this feedback loop and really doing something out of it, really helped us to stay in touch with that human part.

00:21:00: But Georgia, I mean, Ottobock is known for not following the rule one size fits all, but it's always very personal.

00:21:10: Do you sort of differentiate between users?

00:21:13: So you have perhaps, I don't know, a young group of tech savvy people who love to program their artificial limbs and you have perhaps another group which could be very old people who just are happy when things work and somehow give them a bit more a degree of freedom.

00:21:34: Yeah, definitely.

00:21:35: I think Oliver already mentioned it a little bit earlier when he talked about the microprocessor technology and I think that's a very nice example to explain it well because obviously there's people who have different mobility traits, right?

00:21:51: For example, Heinrich Poff, who's very active and very, really wants to bring everything out of his technology that he's using.

00:21:59: And then obviously you have people who just walk a few steps and obviously should walk a little bit more, for example, but who are just not as mobile anymore because they are a little bit older or they have some pro-mobilities and not as fit anymore.

00:22:15: So obviously you have to distinguish between them and also do the product development according to their needs.

00:22:23: Otherwise, I think it would be very hard to convince them and also to support them in their everyday life because you're kind of not meeting those very specific needs.

00:22:33: You have one group, naturally, which uses prosthesis and so on, but you have another group, slowly growing, which might use exoskeleton.

00:22:44: people without any functional deficits, but who use your exoskeletons in order to work better, to be more healthy, and so on.

00:22:57: So do you see after the company was founded in nineteen nineteen, this was after World War One, so it was just looking at the quote-unquote deficits in the sense of people returning from war with a leg missing.

00:23:15: But now slowly I have the feeling there is a development into everyday life.

00:23:20: How can exoskeletons enhance us?

00:23:25: What is your view there, Georgia?

00:23:26: Yeah, I think what we are currently doing is really exoskeletons focused more on industry, yeah, applications.

00:23:34: So really more about prevention.

00:23:38: preventing injury, preventing sickness, preventing people staying away from work because they have shoulder pain or whatever.

00:23:47: So I think that is also probably new for a lot of companies who want to or should invest now in these exoskeletons to protect their workers, to prevent injury.

00:24:00: And I think that also still needs a little bit of convincing towards these companies.

00:24:06: But I think once they really see the data how that reduces sickness days, how that reduces injuries, etc.

00:24:12: I think it is very convincing.

00:24:14: And then obviously also like in our other products, right?

00:24:19: It's more about enabling people to do things that they want to do.

00:24:24: If it's exoskeletons at work or if it's using prosthetics for whatever you want to use it for, right?

00:24:31: To kind of live the life you want to live, to go climbing, to go swimming, to go play, I don't know, football with your friends or ride the bike or whatever you want to do, right?

00:24:44: It should support you in your everyday life and it should adapt to the life that you want to live.

00:24:49: And I think it's very nice to kind of see that transition from just replacing something to really giving that freedom and giving that mobility back to people.

00:25:00: Well, we have seen, I believe, a slow emerging change of culture with our relation towards people with disabilities.

00:25:10: I mean, if you go back, disabilities were not spoken of, it was dramatic.

00:25:16: And now slowly, yeah, we sort of, you know, set them into life, and you have Paralympics, but you also, the whole... way we look at these people or this group has changed Oliver.

00:25:32: Did that feel in these thirty five years of your career that something has also changed within the perspective of looking at well people with disabilities?

00:25:42: Absolutely,

00:25:43: absolutely.

00:25:44: So I'm, as I said, so my background are really emerging markets.

00:25:49: Yeah, so Eastern Europe, Middle East, Africa.

00:25:52: So it was even worse than in Western Europe or North America where people were a little bit more open to it.

00:26:04: But here it was very often like this that people with disability were hidden.

00:26:11: So they were kept at home and it was.

00:26:15: It was so difficult always when we enter the market to get a little bit of understanding also from the authority side, from the governmental side.

00:26:27: This is actually a group of people who really can contribute to social life, to GDP.

00:26:34: So let's bring them back into society.

00:26:37: And it's so nice to see how confident.

00:26:44: nowadays these people are.

00:26:47: So that's why for me it's always difficult.

00:26:50: For me it's not a disability.

00:26:52: So these people who we see today, they have maybe a small impairment.

00:27:01: Confidence they want to achieve something.

00:27:05: So they are not in this victim role anymore.

00:27:11: And that's so nice to see.

00:27:13: And I think this is something what we really achieved also in these last decades to bring them really on the front page, on the daily.

00:27:24: daily picture in our cities and that's nice.

00:27:30: I remember you know I was very active in a project in Cambodia looking after landmine victims and well I worked together with Tan Chanret and you could see how people were hidden.

00:27:46: So it was a taboo.

00:27:47: I mean, it was terrible.

00:27:49: I mean, you have these people who live through a trauma and then afterwards, well, it continues with a very traumatic state.

00:27:58: So the changing of a culture, is that one of the big challenges?

00:28:04: If you look at your global markets, where you would say, we need a mentality change in order to Well, also address these people, have support for these people?

00:28:19: I would say this cultural change already happened.

00:28:25: So I do see very few markets, regions, cultures where it's still a problem.

00:28:34: And I think that's because of the technology, because some twenty, thirty years ago, really a lot of amputees, but not only amputees.

00:28:45: We're talking also, we're talking only about a prosthetic, but we also have neuro-asotics.

00:28:50: But people really were in need of crutches.

00:28:54: So for them, it was difficult to move.

00:28:56: They always were depending on help of others.

00:28:59: And today, not anymore.

00:29:01: So they're independent.

00:29:03: They can move, they can do whatever they want to a certain extent, of course.

00:29:09: Again, it's their self-esteem, which is now really bringing them back into society.

00:29:17: That's why I think the cultural change has happened already.

00:29:22: As a little girl, you already were involved.

00:29:26: You were exposed to naturally also people with disabilities.

00:29:30: But did you sort of see a change in these short years where our view on disabled people is about to change with the help naturally of technology?

00:29:44: Yeah, I think Oliver explained it already quite well.

00:29:46: I think there really was a shift also through technology.

00:29:50: I think back then, you know, it was something that people wanted to hide and they rather wanted to have something that has a nude color.

00:29:56: They can show if they want, but also hide if they don't want to show it.

00:30:03: And I think now people are really, yeah.

00:30:05: want to show it and want to show their technology and it looks cool.

00:30:10: They want to show off with the microprocessors.

00:30:12: Exactly.

00:30:13: It has a nice design, right?

00:30:15: And I think people are much more open to also have a conversation about it.

00:30:21: And for example, Heinrich is often having interactions with little children who have no, you know, like they are not shy to ask, like, what is this leg and what is it and what can you do with it?

00:30:31: and whatever.

00:30:32: And I think it's really really nice to see that there definitely was a shift in technology in the view on the on the yeah on the disabilities through this technology and that people are much more open to to show it.

00:30:48: and I think also you can definitely see that also through the Paralympics right because there you see what is possible for people with disabilities and It gives hope, right?

00:30:59: And it also gives someone to look up to, to people who go through the same thing.

00:31:03: And I think there's also many, many media campaigns now where people with a prosthetic leg on the cover, for example, Zainab was on the cover of Vogue Arabia a few times now already.

00:31:15: And I think that is very, very cool and very, very nice that the shift happened over time, right?

00:31:22: And I think our users actually play a huge role in also driving that and talking about it.

00:31:28: Well, if we speak of technology, I mean, we have seen new materials, carbon, for example.

00:31:34: We see sensors, electronics, microprocessors.

00:31:41: What are the technologies which will define the next decade, Oliver?

00:31:45: I mean, will it just be merging this in?

00:31:49: Will it be more AI?

00:31:50: I don't know.

00:31:52: Where are you heading towards?

00:31:53: Yeah, I mean, AI is used a bit to inflationary.

00:32:01: Everything is

00:32:04: AI.

00:32:05: But of course, we are using it, especially for upper limb procedures.

00:32:12: So of course, we have a system.

00:32:15: It's called pattern recognition, so that the system understands what is the intent of the user, what kind of movements it wants to do.

00:32:24: But for me, I'm working more or looking more into the neural-controlled devices.

00:32:36: Yeah, probably it's minimum in inverse of technology to connect with the peripheral nerve system in order to have mind controlled medical devices, which are actively supporting movements.

00:32:59: And again, it's not only prosthetics, it's also in the neuroaustotics because there we have, I would say, even bigger demand.

00:33:09: Can imagine that fifty percent of the wheelchair users are able to stand or to walk a little bit.

00:33:18: And with the right technology, they might be mobile.

00:33:21: And the wheelchair would not be the first device they're getting in the rehabilitation phase, but it's a backup device.

00:33:30: So they are from the very first rehabilitation process.

00:33:35: They are mobilized.

00:33:37: and not immobilized.

00:33:39: That's something where I'm really looking towards.

00:33:43: So that will be the next generation of medical devices and I'm really excited to go that way.

00:33:49: I think it's also really about how all these new technologies of the future will interact with each other.

00:33:56: I think AI will definitely still play a role to make devices more intuitive.

00:34:01: kind of constantly learning how someone's moving.

00:34:04: Then we have the neural interfaces that Oli was talking about, which definitely will kind of close the loop between the intention and the movement.

00:34:12: I think that will definitely get better.

00:34:15: So altogether it will be definitely smarter devices, more natural control, I would say, and hopefully mobility that feels very personal and very intuitive for the person using it.

00:34:28: But what I get is you see, if you look out in the world, some people believe that well, in the next decades, we will be brain connected and we'll have the big shift and so on.

00:34:40: Sounds a bit like science fiction, but you guys are... sort of at the forefront so you can sort of judge very clearly what is feasible and what is what makes sense and what is perhaps just over the edge.

00:34:53: and nice for science fiction but not for reality Oliver.

00:34:56: Absolutely

00:34:57: I mean I would I would say so yes there are a lot of discussions about brain implants so I personally would be thinking twice or three times, is it really worse to get an additional function for my, I don't know, when I have a drop foot?

00:35:23: Yeah, so to get a brain surgery?

00:35:25: No, I want to be, that's why I say, the peripheral nerve system.

00:35:29: Yeah, so a minimum invasive operation, which really can be done everywhere.

00:35:39: targeted on my impairment.

00:35:42: Yeah, so I mean, it always sounds nice.

00:35:46: Yeah, mind controlled and brain, but no one wants to really get a brain implant trust to have it.

00:35:55: So at least I don't know anybody.

00:35:57: At least here in Germany.

00:35:59: I think also somewhere else not.

00:36:03: It would be strange, I would say.

00:36:05: Well,

00:36:05: there is a branch of transhumanists who dream of exactly this.

00:36:13: Yeah, I don't know who is dreaming about it, the manufacturer of the implants or the users, so I'm not sure.

00:36:24: Perhaps just scientific or science fiction authors.

00:36:29: If you look at the community, so we have spoken about people who lost their limb, but now in aging societies, we are slowly entering a phase where many of your clients would be old age patients who come to you because They are confined to a wheelchair and perhaps with your help, you can make them mobile again.

00:36:56: So do we see a shift also there in a new target group which is growing?

00:37:02: Absolutely.

00:37:03: So what Lord already said regarding the exeskeletons.

00:37:06: So we are more and more moving towards prevention.

00:37:10: So we are supporting mobility.

00:37:14: And yes, aging population is definitely part of our strategy.

00:37:20: So we really want to want to make sure that people can stay mobile as long as possible.

00:37:26: And I think also for prosthetics, we already talked about it earlier that now we also use this microcessor technology for much older people with very different needs, right?

00:37:36: That's more about safety.

00:37:38: not falling, moving a little bit more, not getting any comorbidities.

00:37:43: So I think the focus and the need is very different, but all these technologies can very well support people who are in a different age range.

00:37:52: And then also, I think the neurological diseases are a huge field for us in the future, right?

00:37:59: Where we already kind of stepped into it a little bit through a few products.

00:38:05: For example, the exopulseute.

00:38:07: And I think that, yeah, will be a huge, huge growth field also for us.

00:38:12: And also hopefully nice to see how we can serve all of these patients much better than we can at the moment.

00:38:19: Well, you know, yesterday I went for a walk and I met a neighbor who is, you know, about a kilometer away.

00:38:27: And unfortunately he has Parkinson and you could see him shaking and we were speaking, you know, about his condition and so on.

00:38:35: Can you imagine, Georgia, that in the next, well, ten, fifteen years, Otto Bock is going to help also these people enhance their quality of life?

00:38:48: Yeah, definitely.

00:38:49: I think, obviously, it's a huge field of patience that so many people who have neurological diseases, right?

00:38:54: If it's MS, Parkinson's, CP, etc.

00:39:01: definitely something that we are already looking into.

00:39:04: We also have a few products already that can support patients with these indications.

00:39:11: For example, like I said, the exopulse suit, which is a neuromodulation suit, which stimulates the muscles and can then help people with, for example, MS walk better, have better balance, people with chronic pain have less pain.

00:39:29: It doesn't work for all the patients at the same range, I would say.

00:39:34: Some people have better results and some a little bit less.

00:39:39: But I think stepping more and more into it, it will be very nice to see that field grow.

00:39:46: And also there we already had some very emotional fittings, I would say.

00:39:53: For example, I was in France doing a tour through our patient care centers for that exopulse molly suit.

00:40:00: And we had one patient.

00:40:01: She used to be a psychologist.

00:40:05: And we asked her before the stimulation what she wants to try afterwards and before to see the difference.

00:40:10: And she said, for her, the biggest difference would be if she could write again, because she can't hold the pen and she can't put the tip of her finger on the pen anymore to write.

00:40:23: We did the stimulation for one hour.

00:40:25: She tried to write before.

00:40:26: It was very hard for her.

00:40:27: It took very long.

00:40:28: She couldn't properly form letters.

00:40:32: And after the stimulation, she could write properly.

00:40:36: And she was writing faster and faster and bigger and bigger.

00:40:38: And she started crying.

00:40:39: And her husband started crying.

00:40:41: And our physiotherapist started crying.

00:40:43: And I started crying.

00:40:44: And it was so nice to see kind of her dream to write again come true.

00:40:49: And like I said earlier, I think it's really often these very small moments and very small things that people are able to do again that make a huge difference to their everyday lives.

00:41:00: But Georgia, you just mentioned you were crying.

00:41:02: I mean, these are magic moments.

00:41:04: where what is the feeling?

00:41:07: Are we a bit godlike?

00:41:09: So at last we can, you know, give the people what they want.

00:41:13: or how is that feeling?

00:41:16: In you also looking at Otto Bock, what is that?

00:41:20: I actually saw a friend yesterday and he asked me if it's not sometimes hard to kind of see people suffer through disease or whatever.

00:41:32: And I said, actually, it's nice because we can give something back, right?

00:41:36: We're not taking something away, but we can really be on the opposite side where people can help people get out of this very difficult time in their life.

00:41:45: kind of give something back to them and help them to get better and regain hope and really overcome this difficult time and empower them to kind of live the life that they want to live.

00:41:56: If that's playing with their children, going to work again, whatever it is.

00:42:02: I think it is always very humbling moments because it's obviously often very emotional and very Yeah, a difficult time that people come out of, but then I think it's the most positive and the nicest moments that kind of follow.

00:42:18: Oliver, this is very emotional, but I think this is the core of your company because, well, it changes people in a very deep sense.

00:42:29: If you look into the future, I mean, where are we heading?

00:42:33: Where are we heading?

00:42:35: I don't know.

00:42:35: But I wanted to add maybe one point to Trojra's explanation.

00:42:41: So I think the purpose, so a lot of our employees are really with us because of what we are doing.

00:42:50: And I'm probably also still in the company because of what we are doing.

00:42:56: So business is not always fun.

00:43:01: Especially when you have buttered rounds and you have to talk about costs and deficiencies and stuff like this.

00:43:09: Going then back to our patient care clinics and talk to the user.

00:43:14: It's like a reset.

00:43:17: So I just need yoga, meditation.

00:43:21: So I need half an hour talk to the user of our product and I'm reset it.

00:43:29: So therefore, this purpose and more and more people are coming to departments which are normally not connected with our products directly.

00:43:40: So you have finance, you have whatever kind of departments which normally people can work wherever they want.

00:43:49: I'd say coming and saying, we like what you're doing.

00:43:52: So we want to be part of this.

00:43:54: And that's a very... For us, always a very special moment because it means they really care about what they're doing.

00:44:04: And so therefore, yeah, I only can confirm what Lodler said.

00:44:10: It's emotional.

00:44:11: If you look at, well, there are many studies which focus on what are the top priorities of the young generation.

00:44:18: And you can clearly see, Georgia, you are the young generation.

00:44:23: that Purpose is really right up.

00:44:26: So young people, if they look for a job, purpose is something which is very important.

00:44:33: Is this something which is also attractive for young engineers, young people joining autobock?

00:44:40: that you just say, well, in this company, the purpose question is answered and it's clear.

00:44:49: Yeah, definitely.

00:44:49: I think it really is something that attracts people and I think also especially something that makes people stay, right?

00:44:56: I think a lot of people who joined for the first time maybe don't fully know what it means, right?

00:45:03: Obviously attracts them in the first place, but I think once they are there, they really say they rarely have seen a company having so much purpose and really you with your personal work feeling like you're contributing so much to something.

00:45:19: But now the company changed.

00:45:21: in October, you have the IPO.

00:45:25: Purpose is something in family-led companies.

00:45:28: It's fantastic.

00:45:29: But now, suddenly, you have the shareholder value.

00:45:35: Do you feel a conflict emerging there, Oliver?

00:45:39: No.

00:45:44: To be honest, during the IPO process, a lot of investors actually also asked And it was so nice to see from our first interaction with them explaining what we are actually doing.

00:45:59: And then during the six, eight months to see how they're understanding it and how they like what we are doing.

00:46:07: So, and I do believe we have a lot of investors, not only because of our financial performance, but also because of our purpose.

00:46:16: So therefore, I don't think that there will be a shift.

00:46:20: And for me, always was the priority.

00:46:26: And I think it's also quite normal.

00:46:29: If you're serving your customers, the financial success will follow.

00:46:34: So I don't think that we have to change anything in our approach.

00:46:40: continue what we did in the past, what made us successful.

00:46:43: That's why investors were attracted.

00:46:47: We want to continue this past, being there for our customers, for the use of our products, and through this growing further.

00:46:59: I would agree.

00:47:00: I think it's really about focusing on what we're doing anyway, focusing on the long-term continuum on our path, not getting too distracted by daily shifts in the share price and not looking at it too often.

00:47:15: So I think really, really focusing on what we do, what we do best, right?

00:47:19: And I think then like Oliver said, we will succeed and then it will also be a nice journey for investors.

00:47:26: What is important is naturally this focus, but on the other side, looking at new opportunities and Within this podcast, I had the opportunity to speak to research labs in the US or somewhere else.

00:47:42: So you need a lot of scouting going on, constantly looking at what is happening outside of the autobock bubble.

00:47:53: How do you organize that?

00:47:55: I mean, is that just, you know, you have some specialists or do they come to you?

00:47:59: or very fascinating for me as a science journalist?

00:48:03: I mean, how do you get to know, well, of these very special people, institutes, institutions?

00:48:10: I think there's many different ways how they come to us or how we come to them, right?

00:48:15: I think, first of all, we have a very big network of universities, researchers.

00:48:22: developers, et cetera, who have many, many good ideas.

00:48:26: So sometimes it's, I think, harder to choose which one to pick than having the problem of not having enough.

00:48:34: And then, obviously, I think it's also people in the local markets, right?

00:48:38: Having, I don't know, a spotting a company, spotting a startup, working locally on a project together with someone.

00:48:46: Then again, on a global scale, right?

00:48:48: Having all these universities and Yeah, or also students writing their PhD with us or writing, I don't know, making their master thesis with us, right, to developing something.

00:49:01: So I think it's really on very different levels and also very different kind of ways how that gets together.

00:49:09: But I think that is actually maybe something that the IPOs also helping now a little bit because we definitely have a little bit more visibility now, right?

00:49:17: So I think Maybe also now there will be more companies, more companies reaching out and wanting to get in touch and also the other way around, right?

00:49:29: There always was this cliche of German products made in Germany.

00:49:33: Look at the car industry.

00:49:35: That was the cars.

00:49:37: Is that also playing a role that, well, Autobahn is German?

00:49:41: You already have this sort of promise of quality of, yeah, this is solid.

00:49:49: Do you feel that, Georgia?

00:49:51: I would say definitely yes.

00:49:53: does still luckily have this kind of stamp of quality.

00:49:58: But I think also there are very long heritage apps, right?

00:50:02: Kind of being consistently the market leader since more than a hundred years, or many, many years at least, I think is really something that also builds trust and shows reliability.

00:50:15: And I think that is also something that kind of maybe gives a little bit that stamp of quality and reliability.

00:50:23: Yeah, to the company.

00:50:25: We are slowly coming to the end.

00:50:28: And Oliver, I would like to ask you what is one change in society?

00:50:35: You would hope will happen regarding disability, inclusion and technology?

00:50:43: Yeah, I mentioned before already.

00:50:46: So I don't think that people with... Yeah mobility impairments with disabilities want to get a lot of attention and a lot of stories.

00:51:05: Yeah, they want to be taken normally.

00:51:08: Yeah, so and I still can see that some people are a little bit unsure.

00:51:16: how to approach people.

00:51:19: So should they help, should they not help, should they pay attention, or are they looking away?

00:51:26: I would say, for me, very important.

00:51:30: And that's what I always did.

00:51:33: I treat them like anybody else.

00:51:38: They don't have any kind of illnesses or whatever.

00:51:46: It's a fact that they either paralyzed or they lost a limb but they're healthy.

00:51:52: yeah so and there are a lot of great minds there.

00:51:56: so they want to be treated like.

00:51:58: Like anybody else, and this should be, should be in our society established, and this is also something with politics.

00:52:06: So

00:52:06: true inclusion, that's what you claim.

00:52:10: Inclusion, man, again.

00:52:12: True,

00:52:13: true inclusion, something where

00:52:14: it's true.

00:52:16: Yes, yes.

00:52:17: Just normal treatment.

00:52:20: Normal treatment, that would be enough.

00:52:23: I believe that's the idea of inclusion.

00:52:25: Would you like to add something to that, Georgia?

00:52:28: Yeah, definitely.

00:52:29: I think also a point that Oliver and I discuss a lot is kind of maybe the wish that the reimbursement systems would understand a little bit more that investing in high quality care early on saves them actually a lot of money later on, right?

00:52:44: And really changes people's lives to the better.

00:52:47: And they, like Oliver said earlier, they can go back to work and they can take care of their family.

00:52:52: So even for the reimbursement system, it's a lot of Yeah, positive points, right?

00:52:57: That they sometimes, I think, don't fully understand and therefore maybe deny.

00:53:02: some people care that would really change their lives completely to the better, right?

00:53:07: And for them, it's such a small investment, but personally for the people that make such a huge impact.

00:53:14: If

00:53:15: we would talk... In another forty years, George, I will be sort of really down.

00:53:23: Otto Bock helping me to make this podcast.

00:53:27: But you will be well in charge by then, I don't know, the new big CEO of Otto Bock.

00:53:35: What is your vision in these decades to come?

00:53:39: I mean, with a company started in nineteen nineteen.

00:53:44: which went a huge way already.

00:53:48: But what is Otto Bock going to look like in, well, the future which I might not live, but you definitely will.

00:53:56: I think we would all like to have a crystal ball to look into the future, which we unfortunately don't have, right?

00:54:03: No, but I think... I think our mission will not change, right?

00:54:07: I think that was already there when audiobooks started more than one hundred years ago, and that will definitely still be there in forty, fifty years.

00:54:15: And I think we will all make sure that it will, right, still be the same mission.

00:54:20: And so I think it's the same thing that excites us now through really enabling people to kind of live the life that they want to do.

00:54:29: If that's, I don't know, playing with their children like we talked about earlier or like John McFall who might go to space or Harry climbing the seven summits, right?

00:54:39: So I think really enabling people to do whatever they want to do with their lives and enabling to, yeah, aim higher and do more and really, yeah, live out all their dreams, right?

00:54:53: And I think really also through all these new technologies that we kind of talked about earlier, to really have people not think about their devices, to have these devices really adapt to their lifestyle, to their activities through intelligence, right?

00:55:13: We talked about AI a lot, sensing and human, really still living this human intention in it, but really supporting on whatever they want to do.

00:55:27: So not having to plan their lives around those devices, but really the device is really fully adapting to what they do.

00:55:35: And I think we don't fully know how that will look yet in, I don't know, forty, fifty years.

00:55:42: But I think the mission will definitely stay the same.

00:55:44: Yeah, well, very fascinating.

00:55:46: Georgia, Oliver, thank you for this very inspiring conversation, your shared mission from user-centered innovation to global responsibility shows how technology can amplify and change our human potential.

00:56:03: Thank you for joining and this is a wrap on season one of Taste of Bionics.

00:56:12: Thank you so much all you listening and joining us.

00:56:16: I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did and that you got more than just a taste of bionics out of this.

00:56:24: Well, feel free to let us know what you think about the podcast.

00:56:29: You can leave your feedback directly in the comments or use the contact information in the show notes.

00:56:36: My name is Ranga Yogeshwar and stay curious.

00:56:41: Thank you so much.