Bionics in motion – Johannes Floors on athletic excellence

00:00:00: I was hiking mountains.

00:00:01: I was diving in the ocean.

00:00:05: There's only one thing I'm missing, digging your toes into the sand of a beach.

00:00:12: But the rest is amazing.

00:00:22: Hello and welcome to a new episode of Taste of Bionics.

00:00:28: I'm your host, Ranga Yogeshwar.

00:00:30: And today's guest is an extraordinary athlete and engineer Johannes Flores.

00:00:38: Welcome, Johannes.

00:00:40: How are you?

00:00:40: Thank you very much, Ranga.

00:00:42: Thank you for having me here.

00:00:44: I'm very well.

00:00:44: How are you?

00:00:45: Yes, fantastic.

00:00:46: Well, if I look at your story, I mean, just some achievements.

00:00:53: You have multiple World Championship titles.

00:00:59: Gold in Tokyo during the Paralympics last year.

00:01:04: a new four hundred meter world record in forty five point two six seconds.

00:01:11: So it's incredible.

00:01:13: And this is just a small part of all your sports achievements.

00:01:18: But well, no doubt you're a world class sprinter.

00:01:22: But your story began quite with the opposite.

00:01:26: You were born with Fibula.

00:01:29: Hemimilia.

00:01:32: So perhaps you can explain your story.

00:01:35: We'll start with you being born, I believe in Bissendorf in Lower Saxony.

00:01:44: Yes, you're right.

00:01:45: So I was born with this disability.

00:01:49: Fibula hemimilia or aplasia depends on who you ask.

00:01:55: But basically it is me missing my fibular bone and having deformed feet.

00:02:03: And the curious thing is that it was not detectable before birth.

00:02:11: So was a probably unpleasant surprise for my parents after birth.

00:02:17: And I had a few surgeries after birth to correct my feet in a way that I was able to walk on them.

00:02:28: Okay,

00:02:29: but while growing up these feet did not grew with my upper body so proportionally and So I so my so my lower legs were always too small and Too short as were my my feet and you can imagine it Looking like a banana.

00:02:54: basically

00:02:56: I don't have the association of a banana, but basically, the proportions were different on your lower body compared to the upper body parts.

00:03:06: Exactly.

00:03:09: Also, from lower leg to upper leg, and from the feet, of course, looking like a banana and having three toes per feet.

00:03:21: While growing up, My upper body grew just normally, so while sitting I was on normal height and then standing up I was shorter than everybody.

00:03:31: With those feet being too small, the pain while standing and walking increased drastically.

00:03:41: So imagine me in the age of fourteen, I could barely stand longer than ten to fifteen minutes.

00:03:49: And then I had the pain, imagine after four hours hike.

00:03:54: Okay.

00:03:55: And this led me to, like, asking a lot, what can I change?

00:04:02: What can I do?

00:04:03: And of course, I had insoles, I had orthopedic measures, everything what was thinkable of, and to increase or to make my situation better.

00:04:15: But in the end, it did not help at all to a point I was certified with.

00:04:22: So first of all, we have to imagine your childhood as strenuous.

00:04:27: I mean, were you aware that you were really different from other kids?

00:04:32: I mean, that felt straight away.

00:04:34: or how did you live through that?

00:04:38: Well, first, I did not notice it at all.

00:04:42: And I think it started at the age of six, seven.

00:04:49: So whenever when I first came into to school and came in contact with other kids I didn't grew up with so for them I was different and They of course I mentioned this Some in a polite summon an unpolite way But kids are curious, you know, like they just see a difference.

00:05:14: And this is i think the moment i noticed i'm different as well.

00:05:19: and then of course while growing up i'm doing sports having you know those school competitions.

00:05:28: i at first i was able to keep up.

00:05:31: and then growing up i fall fell behind a ways and was slower than everyone smaller than everyone.

00:05:40: And this is something very crucial for young people because while in school, while physical fitness, you have to be the fastest and so on.

00:05:49: So from the psychological point of view, this must be very depressing for you in that stage.

00:05:58: It depends, to be honest, because I had a really, really great... In our terms, I would say team.

00:06:07: I would say I had the best friends ever.

00:06:09: Okay,

00:06:10: and I hold my bag.

00:06:12: they stood up for me in front of me For everyone or in front of everyone who mentioned something negative and I'm really really thankful for them and you know those are the ones Who I'm still in contact with.

00:06:27: I still call my best friends of course

00:06:29: the true friends the true friendship.

00:06:32: this yes, that's very important.

00:06:36: At the age of sixteen, then you made a life-changing decision

00:06:41: to

00:06:41: amputate both legs below the knees.

00:06:44: So first of all, this is not trivial.

00:06:47: I mean, how did you come up to that decision?

00:06:50: I mean, this is a process.

00:06:52: Yeah, I think this decision shows what I have made or what I have made myself through the whole sixteen years.

00:07:05: I'm telling you, okay, I was not able to walk or stand longer than ten to fifteen minutes.

00:07:11: But the pain I had and what followed after this, this was limiting myself.

00:07:20: Like walking to the physical education classes took fifteen minutes.

00:07:28: Then we had physical education.

00:07:30: So walking and sprinting and doing stuff on feet again, then walk back.

00:07:36: So basically my whole school day was filled with pain after this, or having to stand thirty minutes in a bus on the way home.

00:07:46: And basically I was, I had the decision wheelchair or crutches assisted life or amputation.

00:07:56: And who took that decision?

00:07:59: Did you take the decision or were your parents suggesting that or your doctors?

00:08:08: Well, of course, I had a lot of exchange with my parents.

00:08:12: And we came back to the doctor who did all the operations after birth.

00:08:20: So I'm really, really thankful for him because he came back out of retirement.

00:08:27: just for me.

00:08:29: And we had some good discussions.

00:08:32: And I was like, okay, please, this is my situation.

00:08:36: What can I do?

00:08:38: And he offered, again, the option of amputation.

00:08:44: I say again, because my parents had this option as well.

00:08:48: But now, thirty years ago, like the experience was not so great.

00:08:54: You We're not able to get in contact with other people who had this amputation on this disability and well which is nowadays justice?

00:09:03: search in the internet.

00:09:05: Instagram post and just a quick message took really really a lot of time of research and then like sixteen years later i was able to.

00:09:20: Yeah well have have the more experience from others who did the surgery.

00:09:25: or this amputation and it felt really good for me.

00:09:29: So the doctor was someone I trusted a lot.

00:09:33: And to be honest, my situation was really bad at this moment.

00:09:37: So having pain a lot and not being able to participate in a lot of things my friends did.

00:09:45: But I can imagine amputation is irreversible.

00:09:49: So this is really a hard decision to take.

00:09:54: At that stage, you don't know what is going to happen afterwards.

00:09:59: So there is a true feeling of insecurity.

00:10:04: But you took the decision.

00:10:05: This was more or less no alternative.

00:10:08: I have to get rid of the pain.

00:10:11: Well, you seem smiling because not because it was easy, just because I'm remembering the situation right now.

00:10:20: on point with what you've said.

00:10:22: so this was a really tough decision and it took me a long time.

00:10:28: but what really helped me was first of all the doctor who just so we had this appointment in January and then he said okay let's let's make an appointment let's make a date for the amputation.

00:10:45: it's the seven sevenths twenty eleven by the way a date i celebrate every year.

00:10:52: and let's make this appointment and if you show up we do it.

00:10:57: and if you don't show up that's a fine and you don't even have to cancel it you just don't show up.

00:11:03: and so he took from me having to say yes again and this was really really helpful.

00:11:13: so i did not have to overcome this obstacle again.

00:11:17: to say, yes, I want to do it.

00:11:19: And of course, friends and family saying, whatever you do, we are supporting you.

00:11:26: And there is still a lot.

00:11:28: Very,

00:11:29: very important.

00:11:31: Now, on July, seventh, twenty eleven, after the amputation, you wake up what went through your head.

00:11:40: I mean, this is sort of now while my body has really changed.

00:11:45: Well, You have to imagine, so like my feet were too small and I didn't have a lower ankle.

00:11:54: So my feet were always pointing upwards.

00:11:58: So laying in bed, I usually had this little hill from the blanket.

00:12:03: And then waking up and seeing the hill's gun, this was relieving, to be honest.

00:12:12: Because I knew the part of my body which is the reason for all the pain is gone now.

00:12:21: And so, of course, it's a few years ago now, but it's a moment I really felt happy and that I'm on the right way.

00:12:32: You once mentioned this was the best decision in your life.

00:12:36: Now, you're in bed, you realize, okay, now you're an amputee.

00:12:42: And then comes the process of, well, getting back to life and, well, using a prosthesis.

00:12:50: So this was something new for you.

00:12:54: How did that go?

00:12:55: Well, I had a long time on crutches, Prionce, because we didn't choose the normal way of prosthetic fitting.

00:13:08: And in the end, I would say it's good because it told me patience.

00:13:12: But of course, I wanted to have prosthetic legs and as fast as possible.

00:13:18: And to make it short, I had a year on crutches, planned.

00:13:24: And then being one-sixty on crutches a year long.

00:13:29: And then after this year, I got my first pair of legs.

00:13:32: I walked into the technician and one-sixty in crutches and walked out one-a-t, crutches in my hand, but walking.

00:13:41: And there was crazy just being on eye level with everyone looking proportional.

00:13:50: Before the amputation, I feel I look disabled.

00:13:54: Now I'm looking normal just with carbon legs, with robot legs, with transformer legs.

00:14:00: Call it whatever you want.

00:14:02: They are cool.

00:14:03: They are not disabled.

00:14:04: So it was, you grew up... in a very short time, that will be the point, isn't it?

00:14:13: It

00:14:14: is.

00:14:14: Yeah, right.

00:14:15: So I grew basically overnight by twenty centimeters and was on eye level with everyone.

00:14:23: Just not being the shortest anymore, looked down on, but now being on eye level and this made a lot with me.

00:14:33: So I gained a lot of self-confidence by this.

00:14:36: And well, This whole situation, taking this decision, going through this whole process, I really felt unstoppable at this moment.

00:14:48: And I think this is the reason I choose sport as an A-level subject, did triathlon in school, so I just wanted to show myself what I can do.

00:15:00: But let's come to that point, because you have to imagine before sports, as you very clearly explained, was a phase of pain, of, well, not excelling.

00:15:13: And now suddenly, one eighty-high comes and, well, has his prosthesis.

00:15:22: So this is a different guy doing something.

00:15:28: What was there for a feeling?

00:15:29: I mean, the first time you start to run as a quote unquote normal person, that must have been exhilarating.

00:15:38: It's the right word to describe.

00:15:41: And the first time I ran, I didn't even had running legs.

00:15:45: So I just used my normal legs.

00:15:49: It was crazy because, of course, running legs or running blades are made for running.

00:15:56: and normal feet are made for walking.

00:15:59: And if you're a bit into this topic, you know, that running with a normal daily feet is horrible, to be honest.

00:16:10: And I've never would recommend it to anyone with the knowledge I have now.

00:16:15: Me being eighteen, being nineteen, I didn't know better.

00:16:19: So I just did it.

00:16:20: And I did my first two kilometers, then the five.

00:16:25: And so on that I. I even did the first triathlon with normal daily legs before I got my running blades.

00:16:35: And it felt amazing.

00:16:37: It felt being free.

00:16:38: It felt, you know, the feeling of being able to do something I've never been able to do my entire life.

00:16:48: I don't have any word for this.

00:16:50: I can totally imagine.

00:16:51: And well, how very personal, I mean, Johannes, a guy, one eighty looking great.

00:17:00: Did it change the relationship with girls?

00:17:02: Suddenly girls would say hello.

00:17:07: I don't think so.

00:17:10: You know, I think that that boys.

00:17:14: Don't see if girls are looking at them is basically true.

00:17:19: Come on, come on.

00:17:20: But

00:17:21: to be honest, I had in school, I had like the from after amputation till left school, I had the best girlfriend ever supportive in any way.

00:17:32: And

00:17:34: so I hadn't had the need to look any other way.

00:17:38: Oh, well, so then.

00:17:43: As you said, you were into sports.

00:17:47: You studied sports.

00:17:49: And then comes this interesting moment where you say, okay, let's use a running leg instead of your standard prosthesis.

00:17:57: What was that for an experience?

00:17:59: I mean, putting on carbon fiber running legs.

00:18:04: Describe the feeling your first run in

00:18:07: these,

00:18:08: well, special prosthesis.

00:18:12: So I was, I was eighteen, nineteen and suddenly there comes someone and says, look here, here's your first pair of running blades.

00:18:23: Please just train on them.

00:18:26: And so my technician built a prosthetic for it.

00:18:31: We went to the sport, to the track and they had.

00:18:36: I had to put on all these protectors, you know, from inlining.

00:18:41: Because I was scared of me falling.

00:18:46: Probably not in the prosthetics I built, but probably in my abilities to run properly.

00:18:51: And it felt like swapping an engine.

00:18:55: What I first saw it was running was slow.

00:18:58: And it felt like having wings.

00:19:00: It felt like flying.

00:19:01: It felt... like something I've never experienced before, you know, running to a specific speed and when you catch the wind in the face and feel it, feel that you are fast and feel you're running.

00:19:18: This was my first picture I just saved.

00:19:23: And this is crazy.

00:19:26: I wasn't able to do this in my entire life.

00:19:31: a very intensive feeling to realize I'm no longer limited.

00:19:37: I can go further than I imagined.

00:19:41: So this sort of opens the door.

00:19:43: It did.

00:19:44: And well, it was the another point in my life to make a decision and to move from Brunswick to Leverkusen to start training athletics.

00:19:58: And it opened another door.

00:20:00: where I am right now, being a professional athlete and running every day on those running blades.

00:20:07: I remember myself, very personal experience back, I don't know, twenty years.

00:20:14: I was in Cambodia and there were many mine victims, young men, who had a prosthesis and we would run together.

00:20:25: And this was such a fantastic feeling to see that they were much faster than I was.

00:20:32: So, you know, you not only level up, but you suddenly, okay, we can run, I can challenge you and this sort of, you know, I am part of your world and I can compete.

00:20:45: Was that a feeling you also lived through?

00:20:48: Well, I had the feeling that I'm not longer hold back by my legs.

00:20:53: And this is what, like, I received a lot.

00:20:58: like from my personal experience, but also from all the other athletes I've met in Leverkusen.

00:21:05: And this is what I want to give back as well.

00:21:09: So this is my message, basically.

00:21:13: But this is it.

00:21:14: So and compared to my situation before the amputation, I can do whatever I want.

00:21:21: I'm not limited to anything.

00:21:24: And this is this is really the reason why I say and still say this is the best decision of my life.

00:21:32: So you have no pain.

00:21:34: You are one eighty high.

00:21:37: And I think so.

00:21:40: The feeling of having your prosthesis.

00:21:44: Do you feel this is now part of your body or is it still a tool which helps you?

00:21:50: Well, to add to your list.

00:21:55: I was hiking mountains.

00:21:57: I was diving in the ocean.

00:22:01: There's only one thing I'm missing, which is digging your toes into the sand of a beach.

00:22:10: But the rest is amazing.

00:22:12: And I think one reason for this is that I came out of a situation which was worse and now is ways better.

00:22:26: One reason as well is that I identify completely with my prosthetics.

00:22:31: To its part of your body?

00:22:33: It is.

00:22:33: So I put them on in the morning and put them away, put them off before going to bed.

00:22:42: So I wear them the whole day for training.

00:22:45: I swap, but this is done instantly.

00:22:50: So it's really fast and I'm really adapting to it.

00:22:54: really really fast and like there's a situation which might be I don't know might be not that interesting for for you but for me it it showed me really that my leg my prosthetic leg is my leg because one day I had um a little uh I don't know.

00:23:15: I had something in my socket and I just pulled my my my my pants up to readjust the prosthetic put them off put them to the side and i don't know forgot that i put it off and wanted to walk.

00:23:32: okay

00:23:33: and of course i fell because one leg on one prosthetic on one prosthetic off there is a height difference like.

00:23:41: of course i could not do my step and i fell.

00:23:45: but in this moment it showed me.

00:23:48: that the prosthetic leg I have is my leg and that I don't really think about it anymore.

00:23:55: And I was so into it.

00:23:57: Of course, I'm wearing my leg.

00:23:58: I'm doing the step right now.

00:24:00: And this situation just showed me that I'm completely identifying myself with the prosthetic I

00:24:08: have.

00:24:09: Now, let's speak a bit about your achievements in sports.

00:24:14: So you are running, you get your running blade.

00:24:18: And then, well, there were competitions going on.

00:24:22: And what happened with Johannes?

00:24:24: the first time he won a race?

00:24:27: Do you recall it?

00:24:28: What race was that?

00:24:29: It was the first time I won a race.

00:24:32: Well, it was a big, major competition.

00:24:38: We won in Doha, in the real race, the four by hundred.

00:24:45: and the world championship.

00:24:47: and the year after we won we became Paralympic champion with the four by one as well and this was amazing.

00:24:59: because so let's take a step back first.

00:25:03: well I came to Leverkusen just to train.

00:25:05: I did my apprenticeship.

00:25:07: I worked forty hours.

00:25:08: I trained late six to nine p.m.

00:25:12: and wake up woke up in the next morning at six, went to work and repeated this cycle.

00:25:21: And I was just training.

00:25:23: I feel tired the whole season.

00:25:27: And we went to competition.

00:25:29: And I was performing and performing better than the year before and performing better than the competitions before.

00:25:35: But it still was something really, really new for me because it was the first time being on the big stage.

00:25:43: Like the stage with everyone I'm looking up to and with all the other amputees who are setting the records at this moment.

00:25:53: And then being able to be part of this winning team, the winning relay, this like, it made me confident that I'm on the right way.

00:26:05: It made me confident that like pursuing what I'm enjoying is the right thing.

00:26:12: And I had a lot of fun.

00:26:17: And like all these achievements just made me continue.

00:26:22: And then like, twenty seventeen was the first year.

00:26:27: And then it went on and on

00:26:29: and on and on.

00:26:30: And like my first own win, like not on a team and athletics is still, it's still a sport where you run by your own.

00:26:41: My first win was twenty seventeen at the world champs running and winning the four hundred meters.

00:26:48: and that was like for me the the big sign of all the effort so far.

00:26:54: it paid off and Now I'm the fastest and looking back like twenty seventeen.

00:27:00: It's a few years ago.

00:27:02: I was able to improve myself and this is really nice.

00:27:06: so I was able to to.

00:27:09: push my own boundaries in training and in competition and run faster and faster.

00:27:15: And this, well, achieving those little goals makes me continue.

00:27:23: Well, and you are very fast.

00:27:25: Forty five point two six seconds.

00:27:28: I just want to recall.

00:27:29: Yes, it is

00:27:30: world record.

00:27:32: It's very fast.

00:27:33: I mean, I would not.

00:27:34: Well,

00:27:35: I'm an old

00:27:35: man now, but I would have never been able to run.

00:27:39: At that speed.

00:27:40: so First of all if you look at Paralympics, I mean you see all your colleagues from different countries.

00:27:50: Normally in sports, I can imagine you look at the guy and you say oh this one has a lot of muscles.

00:27:56: or Do you look at what is the prosthesis this guy uses?

00:28:02: is there sort of you know?

00:28:04: Well the mechanics

00:28:06: are you good?

00:28:07: you You figured it out.

00:28:11: I don't know.

00:28:12: Well, there are two perspectives, maybe three in my case.

00:28:18: So I have the perspective of an athlete looking at what do the others do?

00:28:24: How do they move?

00:28:25: What did they train?

00:28:27: And if you look at our hundred meter final, all the athletes there, they're well trained.

00:28:33: They lift heavy weights.

00:28:35: This is, you see it and

00:28:37: oh yeah.

00:28:38: This is crazy.

00:28:39: And then you look how do they move, which exercises do they do?

00:28:44: How do they prepare?

00:28:45: And the technician side, my technician view is, oh, what did they change on their prosthetic?

00:28:54: This looks like a new sole.

00:28:56: Oh, did they change the alignment?

00:28:59: And just out of curiosity.

00:29:02: And then, of course, and this is what I know now, this whole interaction of prosthetic and athlete is developing and it's a give and take.

00:29:16: If the athlete improves, you probably have to change the prosthetic blade, change the alignment, change the stiffness, whatever, because the muscles and the movement of the body develops and then maybe you are able to control the prosthetic better.

00:29:35: be able to have a more aggressive alignment and or a different soul play.

00:29:42: So there are few, few, how do you say, options?

00:29:47: Tricks, options.

00:29:48: Tricks is not, there is no trick.

00:29:50: Yeah, the wrong word, I agree.

00:29:52: We

00:29:52: are all using the same blade, but there are some options where you can change something to influence running.

00:30:03: And then of course I have this view of a competitor.

00:30:08: And I'm looking at the whole, whole field of, okay, this is our race.

00:30:14: Of course, I want to be the fastest.

00:30:16: And I think the goal there is to not look too much on the others, just to be myself, stay by myself, stay focused.

00:30:25: And I think only the one who's relaxed and focused on it himself.

00:30:32: is able to run its own race.

00:30:34: but what i what i get out is that one aspect is you really have to know how to run you have to be physically fit and all that.

00:30:43: but on the other side what i hear is this competence in knowing exactly.

00:30:51: Where must you adjust to wire?

00:30:53: You know have to tinker a bit so that your prosthesis and the sort of alignment between the prosthesis and your body is optimal.

00:31:02: So you really within the years after twenty eleven acquired a lot of know-how in prosthetics themselves.

00:31:12: So you're I mean you are now a specialist in prosthetics.

00:31:15: But this sort of way to understand and optimize your own leg is something which we people do not have.

00:31:24: You're right.

00:31:25: This is a whole developing journey, as I would say.

00:31:32: And the most important aspect is the fitness itself.

00:31:38: So the blade is not running on its own.

00:31:41: It is driven by the athlete.

00:31:44: And the fitter the athlete is the fitter I am the better and the faster I can run.

00:31:48: that's

00:31:49: a very that's a very important point.

00:31:51: why?

00:31:51: because.

00:31:53: They have been very many discussions about.

00:31:56: if you look at Paralympics you have the human factor and you have technology and some say well this is more and more a technological race.

00:32:06: so look at the prosthetics and I can tell you who is going to win and you're just saying no it's.

00:32:12: Physical fitness is essential and the first priority.

00:32:15: It is definitely the opposite in my opinion.

00:32:19: I think those people who say this, they have maybe a basic understanding and knowledge, but in the end, we all are running on the same blade and we are all running on carbon fiber blades.

00:32:34: It did not change that much over the last years.

00:32:37: And if you look at the blade I am using, It was developed i think nineteen ninety two or something.

00:32:45: so the model the idea of the blade i'm running on is older than i am.

00:32:51: What has changed is of course the production process which got better in terms of building the carbon fiber leg or building the carbon fiber blade.

00:33:01: so better carbon better manufacturing methods.

00:33:04: but in the end the idea is quite old to be honest.

00:33:09: We are all using the same lights.

00:33:11: So it's a like it's a shelf product.

00:33:15: You go in the store and say I wanted this one and this stiffness and then then put it on.

00:33:22: But let's look a bit, you know, within the podcast, Taste of Bionics, I had the opportunity to speak also to scientists who are developing modern prosthesis.

00:33:35: We see microprocessors, we see intelligence, we see the neural connections going on.

00:33:45: there is a lot of development going on in that area.

00:33:49: Is that something you also focus on, perhaps not for running, but in your daily life?

00:33:54: Well, in my daily life, I am so with Autobog involved in development and, of course, testing, which is the most fun to be honest, like, see what what can our prototypes do at the moment.

00:34:11: But in terms of developing, I'm more on the Traditional site, let's say, so more than mechanical hydraulic site, so I'm not hard or don't have anything to do with microprocessor or artificial intelligence.

00:34:31: Maybe it's going to.

00:34:32: But it's mechanics right now.

00:34:34: Right now it's only mechanics, which fits to my studies, mechanical engineering.

00:34:41: And like the whole combination of biomechanics, mechanical engineering, orthopedic technician.

00:34:47: What is very interesting and I almost believe this is a basic quality.

00:34:52: I can see it with you, I can see it with other guests we had.

00:34:57: the sort of deep involvement in developing your own legs to, you know, fitting them.

00:35:05: We've had examples here, you know, they would screw up and do things themselves.

00:35:12: Is that something crucial to have this sort of involvement, which at the end gives you the feeling this is my leg and I am responsible and I can, you know.

00:35:24: change

00:35:24: things?

00:35:25: Well, I think this whole tinkering and trying out stuff and adjusting and to try out how does the body react is really important.

00:35:36: to just feel what others might feel.

00:35:39: So I can learn how momentum and forces are going to change if I angle my blade a bit or if I move my feet to my socket.

00:35:53: or if I change something in stiffness, but I need to feel it.

00:35:59: And this whole curiosity, so I think, what does it change?

00:36:07: How does it feel and how can others benefit from this?

00:36:11: And then make the best out of it and make the most comfortable product.

00:36:17: So Johannes, we have to understand.

00:36:19: on one

00:36:19: side,

00:36:21: you are naturally Well, a fantastic athlete with world records and Olympic gold and all that.

00:36:29: And on the other side, you hold, I think, some master's degree in mechanical engineering, and you are working also in R&D with Autobock.

00:36:40: Tell me more about this facet of you.

00:36:45: Well, it came together after my bachelor's degree.

00:36:49: So I did my bachelor's thesis at Autobock and R&D.

00:36:52: And apparently i did quite good.

00:36:56: so they so we agreed that i stay let's say like this and i could.

00:37:03: i could not imagine a better partnership employee.

00:37:07: Employment.

00:37:08: and because iris?

00:37:11: so because i learned so much about.

00:37:15: being a technician being an athlete and studying this field and now i have a chance to combine everything.

00:37:23: and well therefore i have the biggest at the best workshop.

00:37:30: i can try out things.

00:37:31: i can try out new ideas.

00:37:33: i work with amazing colleagues who are on the same mission as i am and who are driven by the same values like make better products.

00:37:44: If you speak about products, I mean, in many areas, you develop a product and it's a bit one size fits all.

00:37:53: But in aesthetics, my feeling is that it is highly individual.

00:37:58: So a product which is fantastic for you might not be good for another person.

00:38:03: So the individual fine tuning is crucial.

00:38:09: or do I get it

00:38:10: wrong?

00:38:11: You're completely right about what we.

00:38:14: what we have trying to find is a basic setting which fits the most and then these little adjustments to make it specific and perfect for each individual patient or user like you can't have a thousand variants from a knee joint or a foot but you can have three to five different feet.

00:38:41: Make it so like the.

00:38:42: make the offer bit smaller, but at adjustments to make it specific and like my daily feed.

00:38:51: they are.

00:38:52: They are feed for for not that active people like we have those mobility grades.

00:38:59: One, two, three, four in sports.

00:39:01: I'm a mob for so mobility for of course I go to the gym.

00:39:05: I do a lot at home or while not doing sports.

00:39:10: I'm lazy.

00:39:10: You're

00:39:10: a couch potato.

00:39:12: I'm

00:39:12: lazy as hell.

00:39:15: And of course, I need a foot which is suited for my laziness.

00:39:21: So I don't have to put a lot of energy into it in the end.

00:39:26: So it's a give and take.

00:39:29: Of course, I can't get back a lot out of it.

00:39:32: But at the end of the day, I'm not exhausted.

00:39:36: And this is what makes it crucial.

00:39:39: But it's interesting, you know, I always have arguments with my wife, the number of shoes, you know?

00:39:46: I think it's a very general.

00:39:48: Do you also have a collection of prostheses where you say, okay, this is the sports, this is...

00:39:56: Yeah, I do.

00:39:57: Well, there is no one size fits all.

00:40:01: There's no one prosthetic fits all.

00:40:03: That's the ultimate goal.

00:40:06: Like, you know, in Germany, we say the Eier legende wollen mich.

00:40:08: so.

00:40:08: We all know, but there is no good translation for it, I suppose.

00:40:12: And we are looking for it, but probably it's not possible because if you implement a lot of functions, then it's heavy, it's loud.

00:40:20: And if it's heavy, it's loud.

00:40:23: It's not accepted by anyone.

00:40:26: So of course I have a countless pair of feet at home.

00:40:33: When you, I mean, my son is right now, you know, on a holiday trip.

00:40:38: If you go on a holiday trip, you have a suitcase and you say, OK, I'm going to go swimming.

00:40:43: I'm going to go running.

00:40:44: So you carry a suitcase full of, well, alternatives, which sort of broadens your spectrum of possibilities?

00:40:54: Well, yeah, of course.

00:40:55: Bringing more feet and clothes is probably not the best idea.

00:41:01: No, but so I try for myself.

00:41:03: I tried to just stick to this one pair of feet I have.

00:41:08: So it's one prosthetic.

00:41:10: And then, of course, if it's a training camp, I bring my running legs.

00:41:16: So I really like scuba diving.

00:41:18: And I have a pair of prosthetics for this.

00:41:21: But then probably stick to those because it's basically weight limited.

00:41:27: But if I have to put on different shoes, like with a heel adjustment, I probably need a different foot for it.

00:41:36: So it's literally modular combinations and so on.

00:41:40: This is the great thing.

00:41:41: Yes, it's all modular.

00:41:43: So I can put anything, well, any feet under my prosthetic.

00:41:48: I could, well, of course, let's just be a bit stupid right now.

00:41:53: I could take a prosthetic knee joint, put it under my socket, and then put a foot under it.

00:41:59: Like I'd never do this and probably would hurt myself a lot.

00:42:04: But it shows as a double amp, I could basically grow.

00:42:10: Oh, today I want to be one ninety.

00:42:11: Yeah, give me a different adapter.

00:42:13: OK, so you can make your choice.

00:42:15: You can say, OK.

00:42:17: Yes.

00:42:18: Yeah.

00:42:19: When you develop, you have a lot of contact with other people, also young people.

00:42:28: Do you remember Johannes in the year of twenty eleven before the amputation?

00:42:35: And is that sort of a very strong empathy you have towards other people, motivating them?

00:42:44: Because I think that this is one very important part, which is important for you also.

00:42:49: Well, a fun part is that if I think back like in time before the amputation, is that if I want to remind myself about the pain and how it looked like, I can't.

00:43:04: It's gone.

00:43:05: I don't have any picture in my head about my feet, about the pain.

00:43:09: It's just erased or probably put ways back into the brain locked with, I don't know how many locks.

00:43:19: But I am the whole... Memory I have from this is from pictures and from stories, of course, and of course what I've experienced, but I can't remember the pain itself.

00:43:35: I think this is a really interesting aspect.

00:43:38: So how does all the brain and how does a human works while self-protecting?

00:43:46: But probably this is the reason why I love working together with kids, doing the running clinics, doing the talent days with my club with Otto Bock, teaching young children how to run with a prosthetic leg.

00:44:02: And to be honest, it's not only about giving them a running blade and having a great weekend.

00:44:11: It's about connecting other amputees together.

00:44:16: I had my prosthetic and I had not any contact to anyone else with a prosthetic my age.

00:44:23: And this is the situation where they come together, they can share, they can share their experiences, they can share their ideas, they can share their solutions for problems they have.

00:44:35: And on the other hand, it's basically the message I want to give is don't listen to others.

00:44:45: when they tell you what you can do and what you cannot do.

00:44:49: For me, it's your decision what you can do.

00:44:54: Don't let others hold you back.

00:44:56: And every disabled person have heard this in their life.

00:45:01: Like, no, you cannot do this or that because you're disabled.

00:45:06: And this is what we wanted to show, we wanted to show everyone who participates in the talent days.

00:45:13: And this is so.

00:45:15: one aspect is well connect the disabled people so that they can share and they can grow together.

00:45:22: On the other side I have a quote I just want to read it where you once in an interview said we disabled people are not different and we do not want to be perceived differently.

00:45:33: We are part of this society like everyone else and therefore do not need to be treated separately.

00:45:40: So

00:45:41: this is

00:45:42: the next step of saying, well, all this disabled, non-disabled, get rid of it, forget it.

00:45:49: This is very important to you.

00:45:51: It is.

00:45:52: It is really important.

00:45:53: And well, it's the same with this whole inclusion debate.

00:45:57: We don't need the word inclusion if we have an inclusive society.

00:46:02: And of course, it's probably a bit easier for me speaking out of my perspective, like being fit, don't have any problems with stairs or not sitting in a wheelchair.

00:46:17: But in the end, this is the goal.

00:46:19: And those people I am connected with, I want to share this, I'm going to show what we are capable

00:46:25: of.

00:46:25: I think so.

00:46:26: There is some cultural change going on.

00:46:29: That's my personal feeling that, I mean, you can see it with Paralympics.

00:46:34: You can see it with slowly the sort of acceptance of openness.

00:46:39: And do you think the world is ready to see Bionics as normal?

00:46:45: I mean, something that belongs in everyday life, not just in sports.

00:46:49: So are we at the stage where, yeah, we don't... discuss this anymore.

00:46:56: It's just Johannes and I don't care.

00:46:58: He has his legs.

00:46:59: I have my legs.

00:47:01: Well, this is quite interesting because it depends on how far you say what are bionics.

00:47:09: If we're talking about having a prosthetic leg like we have today and in the world, in the bubble I live in, it's not a problem at all.

00:47:21: No one I've met.

00:47:23: cares of a prosthetic leg or not.

00:47:25: And this whole sport bubble is fine as well.

00:47:29: And we have users who use the prosthetic leg as an accessory, like painting it, addings, like jewelry stones to it, making it fashionable.

00:47:42: And if you continue this and like, in terms of body enhancement, having not only microprocessor control, prosthetics, but maybe motor driven prosthetics, allowing enhancing ourselves.

00:47:58: We are not that far, to be honest, I think, because we have a lot of those comparison debates.

00:48:07: And I've heard a few sayings like from the sporting perspective, oh yeah, I can cut off my leg and then I can run as fast as you.

00:48:21: That's tough.

00:48:22: No, you cannot.

00:48:23: There's a lot more to it.

00:48:25: I think if the society stays like this, we still have a long way to go.

00:48:31: But seeing all these tech, wearable techs, smartphones, everyone has a smartphone right now.

00:48:40: It's almost part of the body.

00:48:42: It is.

00:48:43: And then part of the body is the next step.

00:48:47: You wear glasses, then we have those artificial intelligent glasses.

00:48:51: This probably is the next step, or we have implants who enhance our abilities.

00:48:57: And this is not common yet, but probably is going to be.

00:49:03: And if those enhancements are common, then probably physical enhancements like active prosthetics, active exoskeletons may be more accepted.

00:49:15: right now.

00:49:16: but like society right now is in the state of don't get better as i am as the normal natural body my opinion and my perspective.

00:49:29: and well i think it's it's quite a long way and i see it quite pro and contra because i'm a quite analog person.

00:49:42: i don't have a smartwatch my my time is running and circles and I really love it.

00:49:48: And on the other hand, of course, I use artificial intelligence and needed to schedule days to make things easier to have tasks done faster.

00:50:02: But I think we all need like this break from it once in a once a time.

00:50:09: So, I understand it's a bit digital detox in the sense of, well, purely mechanical and not digital intelligent microprocessors, sensors, neural connections.

00:50:23: That's what I get.

00:50:25: I think it's nice as long as the user has the ability to turn it off and maybe not get addicted to it.

00:50:33: I don't know if you know what I mean.

00:50:36: I can imagine the fact if you have an exoskeleton and you are suddenly strong, well, yeah, you get addicted to.

00:50:45: I want to be that way.

00:50:47: And turning it off means looking at your vulnerability as a human, perhaps.

00:50:53: Yeah, and then you have this whole discussion about self-reflection and, okay, wow, I have something I can, which enhances me.

00:51:04: Is it a step back?

00:51:07: Is it the setback if I turn it off?

00:51:11: How am I dealing with this situation?

00:51:14: Okay, this is quite curious.

00:51:16: So maybe goes a different way, but we have to think about this when we're talking about bionics and implementing and enhancing and all this.

00:51:26: So it's the liberty to choose and not something.

00:51:32: where there is a must I have to use it.

00:51:35: So this sort of freedom is something I gather is quite important for you.

00:51:41: And we should keep it like there should not be.

00:51:46: Well, maybe it is some a few years from now on maybe fifty maybe ten maybe a hundred.

00:51:53: this this feeling of I have to to be part of like if you don't have any embodying and or enhancing technology you excluded and well, let's see how it develops.

00:52:10: to be honest.

00:52:11: I don't know.

00:52:12: Okay.

00:52:13: But it's a very important point you stress there.

00:52:16: We are slowly coming to the end.

00:52:18: I once again would like to dive into part of your life which is all the metals and so on.

00:52:28: Just give me a feeling of, you know, a gold medal at Paralympics.

00:52:32: I mean, this is... What did your friends say?

00:52:37: You know, the friends who were protecting you in the young age when you still did not have prosthetics.

00:52:45: How did that feel?

00:52:46: Well, it's a relief and it's a weight on the same time.

00:52:52: Okay.

00:52:54: So crossing a finish line.

00:52:56: at the most important sport event at this point from my entire life.

00:53:05: And I have aligned everything to this goal, running fast there and winning.

00:53:12: It's relieving, crossing the line, feeling all the stress of the past months, years, all the hard training effort working out.

00:53:23: It was worth it.

00:53:24: And than having this gold medal hang around the neck.

00:53:29: This is hard warming.

00:53:31: This feels good.

00:53:33: And on the other hand, it's crazy because people expect the same again.

00:53:39: Maybe I did expect the same again four years later.

00:53:44: And this is what I meant.

00:53:47: It's tough as well.

00:53:49: And I can understand everyone who falls in a... And the whole after such an important event.

00:53:57: because having again, so finding new goals, not saying I do it again, that's too easy.

00:54:06: But finding new goals, being able to get back, do it again.

00:54:12: This is tough.

00:54:13: So it is naturally if you are excelling, you know, it's what is going to happen afterwards.

00:54:21: And I believe that is the.

00:54:22: the main aspect, which I think so is no different to, well, other sports people, you know, that what comes after the peak, perhaps, is that.

00:54:34: But

00:54:35: it sounds so negative if I talk about it.

00:54:37: It feels really great, winning, being the best.

00:54:42: And, you know, I have my medals in my living room.

00:54:46: And every time I, being a couch potato, I can, from being a couch potato, I can see what I've done.

00:54:55: Okay, so in any case, I believe you have a very big living room looking at all the members and awards you got.

00:55:04: It is so fascinating sharing your journey with such openness and depth and reflection on the other side.

00:55:12: Your story is, well, I would say one of transformation from pain to, well, the possibility from limitation on one side to world-class performance, which is very, very fascinating.

00:55:29: And yeah, I wish you all the best for the future.

00:55:33: Thanks for being with us.

00:55:35: And it was a great pleasure.

00:55:39: And to all our audience, if you enjoyed today's episode, Taste of Bionics, Subscribe, leave a review and share the podcast.

00:55:49: Take care, Johannes.

00:55:50: Thank you very much, Ranga.